# Is this racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 24, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717 "2012-09-24T21:57:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/21 "2012-09-25T01:37:47Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Yep. > > The difference from other attributes, like aspects of personality, is that there is _no_ characteristic that correlates absolutely with any “racial” label. > > “_Why_ aren’t you attracted to any Asian women?” > “Because I don’t like women who are [characteristic].” > “That’s not all Asian women.” > “Well, it’s most of them.” > “So _that’s_ what you’re not into.” > > Using a racial label as imprecise shorthand for an ‘undesirable’ characteristic–what can that be, if not racism? Sure, and there is _no_ characteristic that correlates absolutely with any gender label either, yet no one objects when I say “I am not attracted to men”. It’s understood that, although my man-woman differentiating ability is not 100%, and I’ve not seen every man in the world, and some men are very effeminate, I am still ok to make such a claim. Similarly, you can call it “racism” if you like, but I can easily imagine a person who, say, finds epicanthic folds quite unattractive, or is put off by significantly dark skin. And I don’t think there’d be anything either linguistically or morally wrong with them summing the situation up by saying “I am unattracted to Asians” or “I am unattracted to non-white people”. Of course the possibility remains open that they’ll someday find someone with epicanthic folds quite attractive, or you can quibble about the technicality that not all people in Asia have epicanthic folds, and some people in Asia are actually Arabic!, and so on, but that’s all just deliberate misunderstanding, as I see it. We may (and, in my appraisal of the current state of the world, should) wring our hands over the cultural factors which would lead to such preferences, but I don’t at the individual level care about them and I certainly don’t mind such phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/22 "2012-09-25T02:32:40Z")
> [@cainxinth](#): > > My dad and I got into an argument over whether the following statement is racist: “I find all Asian women unattractive.” I say it’s clearly racist, he disagrees. What does GD think? Not racist. I don’t find non-white or East Asian women attractive but that doesn’t mean I hate them or think they’re evil or inferior. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/23 "2012-09-25T02:50:36Z")
It’s all about context. If you’ve never seen one you think is attractive, and you’ve seen a few, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. I generally don’t find black women attractive but I’d knock over my grandmother chasing after Aaliyah\*. Or Halle Berry. \*Probably not now, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/24 "2012-09-25T02:56:51Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Not racist. I don’t find non-white or East Asian women attractive but that doesn’t mean I hate them or think they’re evil or inferior. Just out of curiosity, is this “I don’t find non-(white or East Asian) women attractive” or “I don’t find (non-white) or East Asian women attractive”? I guess the former, simply because of the redundancy in the latter, but that’s not enough to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/25 "2012-09-25T02:59:27Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Just out of curiosity, is this “I don’t find non-(white or East Asian) women attractive” or “I don’t find (non-white) or East Asian women attractive”? I guess the former, simply because of the redundancy in the latter, but that’s not enough to be sure. The former as you indicate. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/26 "2012-09-25T04:16:55Z")
> [@cainxinth](#): > > My dad and I got into an argument over whether the following statement is racist: “I find all Asian women unattractive.” I say it’s clearly racist, he disagrees. What does GD think? I think if he finds an Asian woman unattractive before seeing her, then there is something going on other than visually appearance. I generally find women of some ethnicities more attractive than others but I don’t find all women of any ethnicity attractive or unattractive. He might also be trying to keep you from marrying an Asian woman, my friend’s mom is trying very hard to keep him from getting too serious with anyone who is not white. She has never had a problem with her son have a very diverse group of friends but she wants white grandchildren. Maybe thats racist but my mom is the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/27 "2012-09-25T05:18:10Z")
> [@cainxinth](#): > > “I find all Asian women unattractive.” It’s not a well worded statement to have to agree or disagree with. ‘I’m not attracted to Asian women’ isn’t the same as ‘I think all Asian women are unattractive.’ There are plenty of women that I don’t feel a sexual attraction to but by the same token don’t consider them to be unattractive or ugly. To get Freudian about it, do you find blood relatives unattractive? Tell me about your mother. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/28 "2012-09-25T05:24:13Z")
(probably) Not racist if maybe a bit overly broad in terminology. There’s nothing racist, for instance, about liking or not liking epicanthic folds, or dark black hair, or what have you any more than there’s something wrong with liking big tits or coffee colored skin or redheads. As other folks have said, if he met someone who he really liked and thought was attractive and found out that she was Asian and dumped her? Yeah, probably racist. But just finding qualities which are generally associated with the linguistic construct “Asian” to be unattractive? Nah. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/29 "2012-09-25T07:39:10Z")
Not racist. Not everything that has to do with race where they’re not held up on a pedestal or a general judgment is made is racist. Racial is not the same as racist. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/30 "2012-09-25T07:42:50Z")
No, this is a statement about what someone finds attractive not a belief that some races are superior. I’m endlessly amused by people trumpeting that they find all races equally attractive, finding people attractive or not does not equal racism! ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/31 "2012-09-25T15:21:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Possibly racist, but not necessarily. The fact that it is stated in the form of a personal preference makes it unclear if the reason is racism or just personal esthetics. It’s claiming that some other group is objectively ugly or otherwise inferior that is bigoted; not personal preference. Basically, to use another aspect of sexuality as an analogy, the difference between saying “homosexuality is perverted” and “I just don’t find other men/women attractive”. While I think you’re mostly on point, it’s fair to note attraction to a gender is a genetic predisposition (or so asserts Gay Rights activists) while attraction to a race is usually determined by social environment. A male Caucasian would have a higher chance of being attracted to Asian women if he grew up in Bangkok as opposed to Fargo. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/32 "2012-09-25T15:46:53Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > While I think you’re mostly on point, it’s fair to note attraction to a gender is a genetic predisposition (or so asserts Gay Rights activists) while attraction to a race is usually determined by social environment. A male Caucasian would have a higher chance of being attracted to Asian women if he grew up in Bangkok as opposed to Fargo. Doesn’t really matter; nature or nurture, it’s not really a choice. People don’t consciously decide their tastes, sexual or otherwise; I never _decided_ I like black hair better than blond, any more than I decided that I like spaghetti more than beets. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/33 "2012-09-25T16:25:43Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Doesn’t really matter; nature or nurture, it’s not really a choice. People don’t consciously decide their tastes, sexual or otherwise; I never _decided_ I like black hair better than blond, any more than I decided that I like spaghetti more than beets. Man, I did…beets totally suck! Yucko. As for the OP, I’d say that it’s probably not racist, in and of itself (though generally if you have to ask…). People like what they like, and don’t like what they don’t like. I’m into more well rounded women (skin color, hair color or type, or eye configuration is all moot to me as long as we are talking big booty :p), and skinny women generally aren’t a big turn on for me…but, since I know that this isn’t always the case I avoid large generalizations such as the OP’s dad is making here by categorically saying ‘I don’t find skinny women attractive’. At a guess and with a large enough sample size (there ARE a whole lot of ‘Asian’ women out there after all, with a huge range in looks and body types), I’m guessing we could find at least one that would turn on the OP’s dad, but that’s not the point. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/34 "2012-09-25T16:36:19Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Man, I did…beets totally suck! Yucko. Fruitist! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/35 "2012-09-25T16:36:32Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > He could haver fixed it by saying instead, “All Asian women I’ve seen…” I think this is nitpicking. I’ll assume the speaker is aware of what Asian women look like. If I said I’m not attracted to tall women, it should be obvious that I haven’t see every tall woman in the world and it is theoretically possible there might be a six foot tall woman I’d find beautiful. But realistically what I’m saying is that I’m familiar with the general concepts of height and women and attractiveness and this was my statement of how these concepts overlapped for me. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/36 "2012-09-25T16:36:35Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Sure, and **there is _no_ characteristic that correlates absolutely with any gender label** either, yet no one objects when I say “I am not attracted to men”. Allowing that trans and genderqueer folk, etc., have distinct gender labels, I’d say you’re precisely wrong here. Gender labels, in a modern progressive understanding, are actually quite definitive, largely because people have a vested interest in being clear about such things with respect to sexuality. Nothing at all like race labels. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/37 "2012-09-25T16:38:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Fruitist! See, that’s unfair…I hate vegetables as well! My four basic food groups are meat, cheese, pizza and soda (possibly single malt whiskey and cigars as well)… ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/38 "2012-09-25T16:49:36Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Doesn’t really matter; nature or nurture, it’s not really a choice. People don’t consciously decide their tastes, sexual or otherwise; I never _decided_ I like black hair better than blond, any more than I decided that I like spaghetti more than beets. Then why can’t a racist use that argument if he grew up in a KKK household? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/39 "2012-09-25T16:59:22Z")
It’s not racist. What would be racist would be being attracted to someone, but refusing to be involved with them due to their race. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717/40 "2012-09-25T18:02:27Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Using a racial label as imprecise shorthand for an ‘undesirable’ characteristic–what can that be, if not racism? It can be imprecise shorthand that says nothing about a person’s attitude regarding race. If a person dislikes a quality that is objectively common/universal in people that fit a particular racial description there’s nothing wrong with using that description to state your preference. There may be a racial undertone for the person’s dislike of that quality, but that is a separate issue [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racist/635717.md?page=3)