# Is this rape? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 22, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040 "2008-11-22T22:20:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jesus\_Harold\_Christ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f14d63/32.png) [@Jesus\_Harold\_Christ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesus_Harold_Christ)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/1 "2008-11-22T22:20:47Z")
A Brad Pitt impresonator fully decked out in Pitt get-up meets a nice innocent 18 year old girl on the town. He did this with the intnetion of tricking a woman and getting laid. He is a good impersonator and everyone is convinced he is Pitt, including the girl. He pretends he is Pitt and flat out lies that he is Pitt. She goes back to his room at the W hotel and has sex with him under the impression he is Pitt. Rape? Same stiuation. But time it is a Meghan Fox impresonantor and a young man. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/2 "2008-11-22T22:59:43Z")
Is posting stuff like this proof that you are insane? If the girl in question willingly had sex with the guy, it ain’t rape. If every woman that fell for a lie were to claim rape, most of the men in this country would be open to charges. As for the second part of this “debate”, it is even more insane that the first. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/3 "2008-11-22T23:04:06Z")
My gut reaction is no. Presumably, there’s something about Brad Pitt that makes him an acceptable sex partner to the woman in question, and presumably also, this fellow has those same qualities, or he wouldn’t have been able to convince the woman that he was Brad. Therefore, despite not actually being Brad Pitt, it seems to me that he’s nonetheless an acceptable partner for the woman. Of course, if this is the case, then presumably this man could also find willing sex partners _without_ the deception, which would of course be much more clear-cut, ethically. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/4 "2008-11-22T23:12:20Z")
I think it would be legally; I recall reading of a case some years ago when a man was convicted of rape by calling up women, pretending to be their husband/boyfriend, and convincing them to blindfold themselves for some kinky sex before he “came home”. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/5 "2008-11-22T23:22:36Z")
> [@](#): > > "Some of the girls haven’t realised I am not the real deal until the next morning. > > "I just say to them, ‘I’ve got something to tell you’. Luckily they always find it funny. [Cristiano Ronaldo Lookalike Tricking Girls Into Bed](http://www.people.co.uk/news/news/tm_headline=we-bedded-the-wrong-ron&method=full&objectid=20817427&siteid=93463-name_page.html) - funny guy. But really, who can feel sorry for star fuckers, when they accidentally screw Jaime from Eastbourne rather than whiny Ronaldo from Portugal. So go for it Jesus. Wear sandals, let your hair grow, walk the Earth and screw chicks. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/6 "2008-11-22T23:24:05Z")
Technically (though perhaps not legally), yes. Rape is having sex with someone without their consent. And the consent has to be valid. That means that the person has to be of age, in their right mind, and that their decision isn’t influenced by outside coercion or made under fraudulent information. But still, it may seem a bit silly to call this act a rape. After all, “Brad’s” act, while still a gross violation of the woman’s rights and dignity (not to mention the real Mr. Pitt’s reputation), seems so much less harmful than doping up a woman or taking her at knifepoint. But it’s still rape in the way that stealing a penny is still theft. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/7 "2008-11-22T23:50:39Z")
Under the law here, it would still be a form of Sexual Assault. (Plus, the deceiver is also assuming someone’s identity for personal gain, itself an offense). The OP question really has to be clarified as to what sense of the term “rape” we’re dealing with. Plus, does the person find out within a reasonable time, or does s/he go on believing s/he DID score Brad/Megan? Of course when we move from legally to socio-culturally speaking, it would probably be viewed by a large segment of the population, male and female, as a case or _“we already know what sort of girl you are, we’re haggling over price now”_. (And socioculturally, the young male who beds the faux-Megan will be likelier to carry on bragging to his peeps about _“the night I scored with this chick who was a dead ringer for Megan Fox right down to the mannerisms and the way she spoke, she was completely into the whole ‘I’m Megan’ act, man; that was freaky, but way HOT, dude!”_ and never admit he really thought that was Megan Fox 😉 [Heck, were I to hook up with Megan Fox I’d be convinced it was a lookalike unless she showed me official ID, I would be unwilling to believe my luck and expecting the other shoe to drop the rest of the year…]) ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/8 "2008-11-23T00:25:33Z")
Some jurisdictions recognize “rape by deception.” The OP’s scenarios would probably fall into that category, although I agree with **JRDelirious** that the man/faux-Megan encounter would more likely result in bragging than in prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/9 "2008-11-23T03:16:43Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > Technically (though perhaps not legally), yes. Rape is having sex with someone without their consent. And the consent has to be valid. That means that the person has to be of age, in their right mind, and that their decision isn’t influenced by outside coercion or made under fraudulent information. I’m with LouisB on this. So, if I am in a nightclub, meet a chick and tell her that I am an advisor to the Governor, inherited millions from my poor dearly departed rich parents, and drive a Jag that is currently in the shop (step into my 1997 Ford Taurus) and tell her that I am Mr. Cool when none of the above turns out to be true, did I rape her? If so, then lock up the entire male population of the U.S. If not, then what is the distinction between the two lies (i.e. saying I’m Brad Pitt v. telling any other lie)? ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/10 "2008-11-23T03:34:56Z")
Now, I think we can all agree in the case where Brad Pitt impersonates Megan Fox. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/11 "2008-11-23T03:39:38Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I’m with LouisB on this. So, if I am in a nightclub, meet a chick and tell her that I am an advisor to the Governor, inherited millions from my poor dearly departed rich parents, and drive a Jag that is currently in the shop (step into my 1997 Ford Taurus) and tell her that I am Mr. Cool when none of the above turns out to be true, did I rape her? > > If so, then lock up the entire male population of the U.S. > > If not, then what is the distinction between the two lies (i.e. saying I’m Brad Pitt v. telling any other lie)? It’s not an easy line to draw. I agree that not every deception to a potential sex partner makes renders the subsequent consent void, but some surely does. Basically, if the person would not have consented if not for the lie, then it’s rape. If the deception is ultimately only one of several reason why they consented, then it’s probably not. It’s such a fuzzy line, that I don’t think legal prosecution is a good idea for all but the most extreme cases where definite harm is done. But I think we can all agree that lying to get laid is still asshole behavior. And it’s wrong for many of the same reasons that things we don’t hesitate to call rape, like sleeping with a young teen or drugging a woman for sex, are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/12 "2008-11-23T03:43:42Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > Technically (though perhaps not legally), yes. Rape is having sex with someone without their consent. And the consent has to be valid. That means that the person has to be of age, in their right mind, and that their decision isn’t influenced by outside coercion or made under fraudulent information. So if he tells her “I’ll respect you in the morning” and doesn’t, it’s rape? Suppose a woman tells a man “I’ll give you a blowjob, but only if you give me head first.” He does, and then she refuses to follow through on her promise. According to your definition, that would be rape, yes? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/13 "2008-11-23T03:45:14Z")
Yes, I’d say it’s a form of rape. > [@jtgain](#): > > If so, then lock up the entire male population of the U.S. Not all of us lie to get sex. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/14 "2008-11-23T03:47:54Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > Some jurisdictions recognize “rape by deception.” How big or small has the lie got to be? For instance: I am madly in love with you and want to marry you. I am the heir to an estate well into the hundreds of millions. I will love you in the morning and respect you. I find you incredibly beautiful. I will give you incredible pleasure with my athletic tongue. I will last more than 30 seconds before I orgasm and fall asleep. I will not vomit in bed. etc. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/15 "2008-11-23T03:52:38Z")
For what it’s worth, there was a _Bathroom Reader_ article I read, not long ago, where there was apparently a case of a man’s twin pretending to be his brother so as to sleep with his girlfriend—in the court case that followed, the judge ruled that it was consensual, even if by fraud. I’ll try to find the details/confirmation, when I have time. And, of course, I imagine things could vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and the _type_ of lie used (e.g. the difference between “Hey, look, I’m Brad Pitt! Want to have sex?” and “The Martians are landing! The leader told me that if we have sex right now, they won’t haul us both off to their underground sugar mines!” or something). ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/16 "2008-11-23T03:55:49Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > Basically, if the person would not have consented if not for the lie, then it’s rape. If the deception is ultimately only one of several reason why they consented, then it’s probably not. How does the potential perpetrator know what the potential victim would or would not have done in a particular circumstance? If I tell my wife that tomorrow I will clean the garage (when I won’t) and she tells me to come give her some lovin’, then how do I know if she only consented because of my lie, if she otherwise wanted it, or if I just looked particularly sexy while saying it? Is the difference between prison and no crime at all just in the mind of whoever receives it? I know you say that there is no “bright line”, but there really should be if we are talking about felony convictions. What if a woman says she isn’t married, but you find out that she said that because she threw her husband out three hours before and “plans” on divorcing him? Tomorrow, when you find out the truth, did she rape you? I think the big problem here in this example is that on one hand, we are treating rape like a property crime (stealing sex by false pretenses) and then punishing it like a violation of person crime (poor girl was saving it for her husband). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/17 "2008-11-23T03:57:28Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I think it would be legally; I recall reading of a case some years ago when a man was convicted of rape by calling up women, pretending to be their husband/boyfriend, and convincing them to blindfold themselves for some kinky sex before he “came home”. There had to some force involved in that. Wearing a Vader suit and pretending to be the jock boy friend of some chick might work in Revenge of the Nerds, but in real life you’re gonna know pretty quick that the rapists body doesn’t feel like your significant other. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/18 "2008-11-23T04:00:01Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Not all of us lie to get sex. Never, ever, in your whole life?:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/19 "2008-11-23T04:00:40Z")
Exactly. If a woman says “I’m on the pill, don’t worry about using a condom” and then gets pregnant, is that rape? I think most people would say if the guy was stupid enough to believe her, he deserves what he gets, which would be 18 years of child support. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040/20 "2008-11-23T04:04:25Z")
As for the thread. No it isn’t rape. Pretty damn sad actually that someone would have to do that to get sex, but not rape. Rape involves force, threat of force, or sex with someone not in a condition to consent (drugged, underage, ect.). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rape/474040.md?page=2)