# Is this really a microagression? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 30, 2024, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485 "2024-08-30T20:31:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/21 "2024-08-30T21:50:06Z")
I would say it’s perception. If I ask a South Asian person where they’re from, I may be perfectly fine with my intent, but their perception may be that it’s because I’m subconsciously othering them, and, dammit, I’m tired of saying that I’m really from Iowa even though I look like this. Jeez, how many times will people ask me where I’m from?? Why don’t they ever ask Bob? ETA: The manager in that vignette wasn’t intending to be sexist. He may not be sexist at all, and just mentally flipped a coin and came up Jane. Maybe he always asks the person on the right to take notes, or the person first to the meeting or last to the meeting. But, think before you speak. Again, it’s not a major deal, but I imagine it’s exhausting to deal with that bullshit all the time if you’re a woman or minority. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/22 "2024-08-30T21:51:35Z")
The mere fact that so many things are better than they used to be does absolutely nothing to erase how things used to be or how they _still_ are. That context, alone, is enough for me to nod understandingly at the story told in the video. I still remember how quite a few people assumed that “The Cosby Show --” presenting an African-American Physician and his Attorney wife – marked the end of racism in America. Same with Obama’s election. It really doesn’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/23 "2024-08-30T21:56:01Z")
I get it. A microaggression often isn’t even something that is bad. It can just be something that is more often done to one group than another. I do think it would be best if the video actually explains the context. We shouldn’t have to assume that Jane is an equal and was not hired to take notes or do secretarial work. Tell us that, even if only after the scene. And then, yes, explain why it’s microaggression, about how women are often assumed to be the ones who do secretary work even when that isn’t their job. “Even if Jane’s gender had nothing to do with why you chose her, it would have been better to ask for a volunteer to take notes.” * * * I will note there’s also the issue that the person pushed to take notes is assumed to contribute less to the actual discussion. Taking notes takes away your time to talk. That’s probably what comes off the worst: the implication that Jane will have less to contribute. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/24 "2024-08-30T22:10:01Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I will note there’s also the issue that the person pushed to take notes is assumed to contribute less to the actual discussion. Taking notes takes away your time to talk. Yeah - that assumption might be common. IMO it would be misguided. First of all, taking notes at a work meeting doesn’t mean being glued to your freaking steno machine with a muzze on. Most people with an IQ above a chimp can manage to both talk and take notes. You take the freaking notes on your laptop during the meeting, and then afterwards, you work them into minutes which you can distribute - not only putting your spin on the meeting, but also showing that you are a contributing member of the team. Who else has a tangible product of their efforts? If you are the one taking notes, it doesn’t matter who said what - if for whatever reason it doesn’t make its way into the notes/minutes. Sure, get into a pissing battle over who is or isn’t being disrespected. But in the process, you might want to consider what “power” might actually be involved in assignments you might consider demeaning or beneath you. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/25 "2024-08-30T22:24:42Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > But in the process, you might want to consider what “power” might actually be involved in assignments you might consider demeaning or beneath you. It may be a bit more loaded than that if/when it plays into long-running and rather demeaning stereotypes that large groups of people have struggled mightily, and for generations, to break free from. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/26 "2024-08-30T22:25:26Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > _She gives him a weird “what the fuck?” look_ but then silently seems to assent and start writing. Emphasis added. Is the OP (and others) just disregarding this detail? They gave plenty of info to show this was a micro aggression. No wild leaps necessary. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/27 "2024-08-30T22:52:11Z")
In my book this needs to play both ways - just because the female in this situation perceives it as a slight and gives a WTF look, it doesn’t mean there was anything behind it. There are many many reasons why the “boss” may have asked her, some of which have already been mentioned. How it looks to her is not necessarily what the reality is, it is only her perception. As much as we want to be reducing sexism in the office, we also want to be reducing this idea that my perception is reality. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/28 "2024-08-30T23:10:05Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Emphasis added. Is the OP (and others) just disregarding this detail? They gave plenty of info to show this was a micro aggression. No wild leaps necessary. Or you could assume that she’s an over sensitive feminazi, which unfortunately is the message too many men (and women) seem to take away. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/29 "2024-08-30T23:29:54Z")
Could we please do without the word “feminazi”? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/30 "2024-08-30T23:30:19Z")
My apologies ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/31 "2024-08-30T23:36:31Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Really? They just had you look at this video? No other material presented before or after? > > I’m not all that shocked if it was done like that because many business just want to check off a box labeled “Made employees watch DEI video”. yes…and yes ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/32 "2024-08-30T23:40:21Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > In my book this needs to play both ways - just because the female in this situation perceives it as a slight and gives a WTF look, it doesn’t mean there was anything behind it. > There are many many reasons why the “boss” may have asked her, some of which have already been mentioned. > How it looks to her is not necessarily what the reality is, it is only her perception. As much as we want to be reducing sexism in the office, we also want to be reducing this idea that my perception is reality. this is my point. From the context, there was no suggestion that there was any motive behind the supervisor’s request other than, “hey, someone needs to take notes, I’m going to randomly pick someone and it happens to be Jane this time”. My question was, if indeed this was a random choice, is simply asking someone in a group to do something (take notes, whatever) an automatic microaggression? What if he had asked the man to take the notes. Is that a microaggression against the man? If so, can a supervisor not ask any employee to do anything without it being labeled a microaggression? ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/33 "2024-08-30T23:42:02Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Have you already left for the day? Are you home yet? Well, we need you to swing back in. There was a delivery of some heavy boxes that need to be put away in the storeroom.” (A case of ten reams of copy paper = 50 lbs.) > > If that would piss you off, you can’t begrudge a woman coworker being pissed at taking notes, tidying up, wearing hose in the summer, etc. Apples and oranges. The first case describes a person who has clocked out, left the premises and is driving home,and now told to return to work without pay, and beyond his usual working hours. The second case is a person who is physically present in the office, on the clock, and told to do something reasonable, while getting paid during regular working time. ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/34 "2024-08-30T23:43:41Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Emphasis added. Is the OP (and others) just disregarding this detail? They gave plenty of info to show this was a micro aggression. No wild leaps necessary. I’m not disregarding it. She obviously took it as one, but why? Can her boss not ask her to do something that is obviously part of her job? What if her boss had asked the man to do it and he had responded the same way? This was not a request to go out and get his dry cleaning. It was a task that seemingly fell within the scope of work that was required and expected of an employee in that situation. So why is it a microagression? ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/35 "2024-08-30T23:46:43Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Does categorizing something as a microaggression depend on intent or perception? > > Just because you often get shat on does not mean you are always being shat on this is my exact question. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/36 "2024-08-30T23:57:22Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Based only on the info in the OP, it would be the same microaggression if he asked the male co-worker to take notes that way as well. Women have traditionally been seen as “the secretary” so no. It’s a way of telling Jane to stay out of the way while the men talk. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Does categorizing something as a microaggression depend on intent or perception? Many men don’t even realize they are making microaggressions like putting their hands on a woman in a “friendly” way or calling them “dear”. Intent has nothing to do with it. Ask it this way, if a boss said something racist, like asking an Asian employee if they brought fried rice to work, and meant it as a funny joke but not racist, does that make their comment not-racist? ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/37 "2024-08-30T23:58:33Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > This was not a request to go out and get his dry cleaning. It was a task that seemingly fell within the scope of work that was required and expected of an employee in that situation. So why is it a microagression? Probably because you’re watching a DEI video that is supposed to help you identify micro aggressions? Real life is complicated. We can speculate all we want about this hypothetical office and why each person in the video acted as they did. Maybe Jane has a bad case of carpal tunnel syndrome! Maybe she has Tourette’s Syndrome! Maybe she’s sleeping with the boss and is upset to realize that she’s not getting special treatment because of it! But in a DEI training video where people are supposed to learn what micro aggressions are? Gosh, what are the chances that the video was trying to illustrate one? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/38 "2024-08-30T23:59:43Z")
What is this “clock” of which you speak? —American salaried employee ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/39 "2024-08-31T00:02:35Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > But in a DEI training video where people are supposed to learn what micro aggressions are? Gosh, what are the chances that the video was trying to illustrate one? Yeah, but in that case wouldn’t you think that they would illustrate one that was a clear cut, no doubt about it, everyone can agree microaggression, not some ambiguous scenario that might or might not reasonably be considered one based on facts that weren’t even presented? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/40 "2024-08-31T00:02:59Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > This was not a request to go out and get his dry cleaning. It was a task that seemingly fell within the scope of work that was required and expected of an employee in that situation. So why is it a microagression? Why did he ask the woman to do it and not the man? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485.md?page=3)