# Is this really a microagression? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 30, 2024, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485 "2024-08-30T20:31:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/81 "2024-08-31T11:37:36Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I so vicariously wish you had let the silence stretch for as long as it took. Or, she coulda said, “I took notes the last time, so it it one of your turn this time.” And then sat there. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/82 "2024-08-31T11:57:20Z")
Completely inappropriate. Nothing ‘micro’ about it. Take your own damn notes, and then summarize and email that to the employees. There are sometimes dedicated note takers. For instance, we have an administrative assistant. It’s part of their duties to take notes. That’s fine. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/83 "2024-08-31T12:14:39Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > If people don’t want to see the minor but irritating ways that sexism and racism can make the workplace uncomfortable then they simply won’t. I mean, this is it right here. We can all come up with a thousand ways that this little 10 second video could be leading us astray (maybe the man can’t write – did you ever think of that, smart guy??). But, it was likely a little vignette that was part of a 30 minute training class on microaggressions, and the lesson was clear even if the OP and others refuse to see it. Our actions can cause discomfort in others based on prevailing stereotypes and bigotry, so think about how your behavior can avoid that. In this case, it would be as simple as asking for a volunteer to take notes, rather than putting it on the woman. Or, taking notes yourself – that’s usually what my boss does. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/84 "2024-08-31T12:47:28Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Or, she coulda said, “I took notes the last time, so it it one of your turn this time.” And then sat there. This presupposes that she has the inner fortitude to face the blowback (feminazi bitch), which presupposes she hasn’t been worn down by a hundred other such incidents that week. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/85 "2024-08-31T12:54:15Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > So why is it a microagression? It’s what a microaggression looks like. An innocent remark or request, that just happens to coincide with a thousand other innocent remarks or requests that reinforce inappropriate stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/86 "2024-08-31T13:00:34Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > We can all come up with a thousand ways that this little 10 second video could be leading us astray (maybe the man can’t write – did you ever think of that, smart guy??). But, it was likely a little vignette that was part of a 30 minute training class on microaggressions, and the lesson was clear even if the OP and others refuse to see it. And that is the brilliance of the clip (IMO). If you are watching it and don’t see the mircoaggreession, then you are one of the guys who are completely blind to how you are treating the women in your office. If you do see it and say, “Yeah but …” then you are aware and simply justify it. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Finally I said something like “well, I guess I can take minutes again, if no one else is able to”. I wonder what they would have said if you said, “I’ll take the notes as long as one of the **men** go get us all coffee.” Maybe slap one of them on the ass as they walk by saying, “Lookin’ good.” I’m joking on that second one. ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/87 "2024-08-31T14:18:04Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > and the lesson was clear even if the OP and others refuse to see it. I wasn’t “refusing to see it”. I asked this question in good faith because, at the time, it seemed so subtle and not clear to me from the minimal context provided that this was a microaggression, maybe a nano- or pico- aggression at most. Anyway this discussion has helped frame things for me and given some new insight, so I thank all that have participated in good faith rather than just lecturing or scolding. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/88 "2024-08-31T14:29:22Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Does categorizing something as a microaggression depend on intent or perception? It absolutely doesn’t depend on intent. Micro aggressions are, by their nature, thoughts little actions that weren’t intended to offend. If you intend to offend someone, your aggression isn’t “micro” > [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > What if her boss had asked the man to do it and he had responded the same way? If it were the lived reality of women that that happened, it would have been fine. But it’s not. It’s the stereotype that the woman is support staff. Micro aggressions are micro because they are never a big deal by themselves. They just add up over time. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/89 "2024-08-31T14:39:17Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > it seemed so subtle and not clear to me from the minimal context provided that this was a microaggression I think the point is to show you that there are other viewpoints that give different context. You might see it as just a random task; a woman might see it as a minimization of her value to the team. Neither is TRUTH, but each is the perception based on different life experiences. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/90 "2024-08-31T16:51:27Z")
Didn’t my first answer basically lay it out without lecturing or scolding? Then you came back with this: > [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > this is my point. From the context, there was no suggestion that there was any motive behind the supervisor’s request other than, “hey, someone needs to take notes, I’m going to randomly pick someone and it happens to be Jane this time”… That’s you refusing to see it. And then: > [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > I’m not disregarding it. She obviously took it as one, but why?.. And then: > [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > I don’t know, because they didn’t give that information! If the video had the boss say “Jane, you’re a woman and thus obviously good at these types of things, can you take notes for us men”, that would have given the viewer a blaring klaxon horn and flashing red light that this was a microaggression and something to avoid. But as it was, it appeared that he simply chose her at random to undertake the customary and important job of note taking, which in my mind does not make this a microaggression, no matter how pissy she seemed to get at being assigned that role. Etc., etc. In between were lots of posters patiently pointing out what the message was. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/91 "2024-08-31T17:00:58Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > That’s you refusing to see it. I don’t think they were refusing to see it so much as had not seen the fuller picture yet. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/92 "2024-08-31T17:05:27Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > It absolutely doesn’t depend on intent. Micro aggressions are, by their nature, thoughts little actions that weren’t intended to offend. > [@Ulfreida](#): > > This presupposes that she has the inner fortitude to face the blowback (feminazi bitch), which presupposes she hasn’t been worn down by a hundred other such incidents that week. My idea is that the way to treat women - or any member of a group that has been traditionally underrepresented and undercompensated, the most fair and respectful approach is to treat them just the same as I would treat a white male colleague. So if I asked Sue to take notes - not because she is a woman but just because I picked one attendee, and she didn’t want to, she could say, “I’d prefer not to.” Or if I asked her the second week in a row, she could say, “It’s Joe’s turn.” Same way I’d expect Joe to say the same if he didn’t want to or if he had been asked 2 weeks in a row. I really couldn’t care less about the gender/race/ethnicity/religion/sexuality of any cow-orkers/subordinates. I just want them to do their damn jobs reasonably well and within the set timetable. I really don’t care to try to predict the inner mental states of each individual to try to style bespoke requests and responses given each individual’s sensitivities. In the OP’s situation, I assume asking the woman to take notes is a microaggression if the boss were a woman? If the attendees included 2 women and 1 man? One problem with defining a microaggression solely by perception is that you end up with Schrodinger’s microaggression. A boss does the exact same thing to two similarly situated persons. 1 is offended, but the other isn’t. So it was both a microaggression and NOT? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/93 "2024-08-31T17:09:55Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > Yeah, but in that case wouldn’t you think that they would illustrate one that was a clear cut, no doubt about it, everyone can agree microaggression, not some ambiguous scenario that might or might not reasonably be considered one based on facts that weren’t even presented? That’s the whole point of “what’s a micro aggression” training is about. By its very nature, it’s minor. “Micro”. By itself, it would mean nothing at all. And it almost certainly wasn’t an intentional dis. It just represents the unstated assumptions that of course the women support the men. And the problem isn’t that this might have happened once. It’s that these little things add up when they happen over and over again. > [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > I don’t know, because they didn’t give that information! If the video had the boss say “Jane, you’re a woman and thus obviously good at these types of things, can you take notes for us men”, that would have given the viewer a blaring klaxon horn and flashing red light that this was a microaggression and something to avoid. No, that wouldn’t be a micro aggressions, that would be a clear cut, hr-actionable discrimination against women. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/94 "2024-08-31T17:12:02Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > she could say, “I’d prefer not to.” Yes she could, just as easily as a man could – if she didn’t happen to have a lifetime of acculturation that she is expected to take on menial tasks so men can be freed up for the important stuff. But that would be a rare woman. Your idea of treating everyone equally makes perfect sense if everyone indeed was equal. And that simply is not the case, and pretending doesn’t make it so. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/95 "2024-08-31T17:13:29Z")
That’s why it’s best to ask, “who wants to take notes”. Or to keep track and say, “Bob took notes last time, so Jane, i think it’s your turn to take notes”. And why it’s best to let people sign up for whatever they want to bring to the pot luck. Or to ask the administrative assistant, and not the random woman in the group, to organize that pot luck. And for the boss to organize the “administrative assistant day” gift, and not delegate it to the random woman in the group. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/96 "2024-08-31T17:19:36Z")
Fwiw, at my last job, when we had a really important, information-sharing meeting, we would all take notes. My boss would post his in an editable format, and we’d all review our own notes and edit his. Then we’d save the version we all agreed on. But that’s more overhead than is typically needed. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/97 "2024-09-01T00:11:03Z")
Let me guess. You are a white male with a fairly common first name that doesn’t lend itself to jokes like, say, Richard. And probably hasn’t worked retail. Maybe you don’t live in North America. If you do, you should have been aware of the use of fried chicken and watermelon in racism. Or rather, how assholes have used those to be an asshole to black people. And even though you aren’t racist, why would you want to do something that assholes do? ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/98 "2024-09-01T00:16:45Z")
Pretty sure you misunderstood the intent of @needscoffee ’s post there as she was clearly being sarcastic… ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/99 "2024-09-01T00:25:07Z")
> [@Zyada](#): > > Let me guess. You are a white male with a fairly common first name that doesn’t lend itself to jokes like, say, Richard. And probably hasn’t worked retail. > > Maybe you don’t live in North America. > > If you do, you should have been aware of the use of fried chicken and watermelon in racism. Or rather, how assholes have used those to be an asshole to black people. And even though you aren’t racist, why would you want to do something that assholes do? I thought it was obvious I was turning it back on the OP and showing how ridiculous it would sound in racial terms, since gender role terms weren’t working. The entire 2nd paragraph was taken almost verbatim from the first post, but I plugged in “watermelon” and “fried chicken” to show the glaring absurdity. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485/100 "2024-09-01T00:48:28Z")
Sorry! ETA but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone has done that [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-a-microagression/1006485.md?page=6)