# Is this really helping the poor? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 26, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757 "2017-08-26T20:26:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/21 "2017-08-27T04:21:02Z")
With the addition of your insight on my previous post, I will say this: Most of my charitable giving/volunteer work involves trying to provide food, water, and medical care for those who need help obtaining these basic needs. And I mostly support large charities with the infrastructure and experience to deliver these necessities to large, faraway groups - no point in duplication of a supply chain, in my opinion, if UNICEF or Doctors without Borders can do the job more efficiently. And it sounds like you are working with an agency with an established line of supply. I think that’s good. But speaking of your concerns about creating depency: last autumn, I became part of a very local grassroots effort to feed a bunch of my neighbors after a weather event. It literally began on Facebook, the morning after Hurricane Matthew struck inland south Georgia. A whole lot of us wanted to help, and we donated our proverbial loaves and fishes. And our little spare boxes of pasta and jars of peanut butter created over 100,000 meals given away during the days when no one had electricity. We gave meals to walk-ins at the church. We delivered to outlying communities. We dispatched boxed lunches, water, and full gas cans to the nearby interstate, to help those trying to get home after evacuation. We came home every day with boxed meals for our elderly and disabled neighbors who couldn’t come to the church for lunch. We put together a grocery distribution of 100 tons of food, thanks to help from local businesses and people of good will. And my 81-year-old neighbor hasn’t become less independent, just because I brought him a few hot meals. Travelers on the interstate haven’t come to expect food delivery just because we offered boxed lunches during an emergency. Our loaves and fishes were offered because our neighbors needed help, and no mama worth her salt will let someone go hungry if she can turn tonight’s meat into soup to share further. I can’t judge the motives of someone who needs a meal. I am only called to feed them. Judgment is above my pay grade. ---
**Author:** ![ssgenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@ssgenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssgenius)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/22 "2017-08-27T05:39:52Z")
Thanks - Excellent points. Another way to look at this is to look at the first episode Star Trek TNG - Encounter at Farpoint The aliens are keeping this living being alive (which is the space station) by just giving him enough food to survive - Nothing more and the alien was supposed to be happy for this That is what I was feeling that I had. The other thing that I thought is that at companies such as Foxcomm, they are doing a similar procedure and they have no problems getting more workers. (Although I am sure their factories are not at 103 F on the inside with dust all over the place) ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/23 "2017-08-27T06:08:44Z")
I recently read something about charity, and how we as a group tend to share our least with our neighbors, and how useless and demeaning that can be, for the giver and the recipient. If we are inclined to share, and help, shouldn’t we share our best? Not our table scraps, not our worn-out t-shirts and jogging pants. Not our Windows Me dinosaur of a desktop. And I personally think that, if I can share, I can give a portion of my best - my good work suits, versus my ratty old yoga pants; canned chicken and salmon, not the sad expired can of corn in the back of the pantry; etc. If it’s not good enough for my family, I’m not sharing - I’m just letting someone else dispose of my trash. But, in a situation where a million meals are needed? It’s probably better to provide a million basic meals, versus 10,000 t-bone steaks. It’s good to examine your own motives, but it’s better to feed the other 990,000 and wallow in your guilt privately, imho. ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/24 "2017-08-27T06:47:47Z")
It sounds like the group is Feed my starving Children[https://www.fmsc.org/about-us](https://www.fmsc.org/about-us). As far as I know, the food is sent to anywhere there is need, including the US. I’m a bit surprised if this is the same group because the times I have volunteered with them, they were very concerned about hygiene in packaging the food. Packing food in the conditions you mentioned does not sound ok. ---
**Author:** ![ssgenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@ssgenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssgenius)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/25 "2017-08-27T09:18:43Z")
Similar group and goals but different in name Only divergence is that we were doing it outdoors (in a tent) and the ingredients were different (no potatoes). Thanks ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/26 "2017-08-27T20:51:44Z")
They probably chose rice because it’s easy to cook and digest, and allergy is rare. My old town had a “backpack program” for kids who might be inadequately fed on the weekends, and they had to discontinue it because very little of the food was being eaten by the kids. :mad: Most of it, and the backpacks too, were being traded for drugs, usually meth. ---
**Author:** ![ssgenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@ssgenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssgenius)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/27 "2017-08-27T20:57:07Z")
> [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](#): > > It sounds like the group is Feed my starving Children[https://www.fmsc.org/about-us](https://www.fmsc.org/about-us). As far as I know, the food is sent to anywhere there is need, including the US. I’m a bit surprised if this is the same group because the times I have volunteered with them, they were very concerned about hygiene in packaging the food. Packing food in the conditions you mentioned does not sound ok. Yes, they were concerned about the hygiene and told us to try not to spill :dubious: but had few plans to deal with any spills aside from leaving it on the grass. However, I think the organizers were not planning on the 103 F weather (which was unusually warm and humid even for the area) nor a massive thunderstorm a few hours later after I left that spanned a few small tornadoes. There was a wide variety of ages from 3 years old to people who were over 80+ and there was even a few medical people there but they were also suffering from the heat and humidity. The food was intended for any improvised areas including refugees. It would be ironic if this food wound up in Texas as that is where it was packaged. ---
**Author:** ![ssgenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@ssgenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssgenius)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/28 "2017-08-27T21:06:56Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Matata](#): > > I recently read something about charity, and how we as a group tend to share our least with our neighbors, and how useless and demeaning that can be, for the giver and the recipient. If we are inclined to share, and help, shouldn’t we share our best? Not our table scraps, not our worn-out t-shirts and jogging pants. Not our Windows Me dinosaur of a desktop. And I personally think that, if I can share, I can give a portion of my best - my good work suits, versus my ratty old yoga pants; canned chicken and salmon, not the sad expired can of corn in the back of the pantry; etc. If it’s not good enough for my family, I’m not sharing - I’m just letting someone else dispose of my trash. > > But, in a situation where a million meals are needed? It’s probably better to provide a million basic meals, versus 10,000 t-bone steaks. It’s good to examine your own motives, but it’s better to feed the other 990,000 and wallow in your guilt privately, imho. Excellent points. I think we are all guilty of that at times. ---
**Author:** ![ralfy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ralfy/32/600_2.png) [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/29 "2017-08-28T05:48:44Z")
They all help one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/30 "2017-08-28T11:26:17Z")
I’ve heard that a lot of charities use volunteer labor as a way to get potential donors personally engaged with a cause, and thus more likely to give money. In this particular case, the hundred volunteers might have been moved to give thousands of dollars for this event, and maybe even thousands of dollars more in the future. If they had the money regardless of volunteer/donors, it would probably be a hell of a lot cheaper and more efficient to set up a proper food packaging facility and hire a handful of machine operators. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/31 "2017-08-28T14:36:01Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Want to help displaced people, whether it’s due to natural or man-made disasters? Send money to an established organization that does this, whether it’s Operation Smile, Doctors Without Borders, Salvation Army, Red Cross, etc. Those organizations know where to get the things they need to the people who need them, and unfortunately, also when to get out if things get too dangerous. > > Or, if you wish to think locally, donate to a shelter or a food pantry. I agree with the implication I take from that. The further away in distance, culture, circumstances you are from the people being helped, the more likely you do less good than you intend, or perhaps even more harm than good, if you do it the way that seems natural to you. I trust a professional organization, Catholic Relief Services is my preferred charity (emphasizes aid to the poorest in the poorest countries, highly rated in efficiency, not a proselytizing organization, also the conduit for a lot of US AID money) to give $ for the poor. I leave it to them to do as best as they can with the give a fish v. teach to fish dilemma. If I donate stuff or time it’s to charities which take local action, because I’m in a better position to use my own experience in the society I actually live in to decide if what they are doing is really helping. Also back to far off situations where large numbers of people are suffering ongoing physical want (not just in the wake of disasters and not just psychological suffering because they have much less than others do) there can be a real problem with sending in free foreign food thus pushing down the price local farmers get. That’s not a joke or somebody’s stingy political opinion, it’s real. OTOH those places also have temporary situations which demand it. It’s again a dilemma, no easy answer to that, but IMO OP has some genuine reason to wonder about it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/32 "2017-08-28T15:03:12Z")
> [@ssgenius](#): > > I recently spent a few hours as a volunteer putting together packaged meals for the poor. > > Essentially putting rice, soy, and some vitamins in a plastic bag and labeling it. I do this regularly, with [this group](http://www.stophungernowsa.org/), both through work and as a private citizen. > [@](#): > > The condition of this were terrible. It was 103 F out and in a tent with 100+ volunteers that magnified the heat noise and dust. After 2 hours of this I felt sick with the dust and heat and had to go home to get out of this heat. (I had more water than one can imagine but it only helped marginally). That’s fucked up - when we do big meal packing drives, everyone only does one 1-hour shift. > [@](#): > > I had one of these meals and it was subsistence at best. Ummm … that’s _kind of the point_? > [@](#): > > By providing these meals for free, as good as it feels, are we making this poverty even worse by creating a dependence on these meals and as a way to control the populations in these impovrished countries? So you think we should maybe just let them die, and[decrease the surplus population](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/A_Christmas_Carol)? Or did you have a more … _modest_ proposal in mind? ---
**Author:** ![ralfy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ralfy/32/600_2.png) [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/33 "2017-08-28T16:22:41Z")
The irony is that given a global capitalist system characterized by maximization of profit and competition, the goal is not to decrease population but to earn from growing consumer markets. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/34 "2017-08-28T17:44:28Z")
> [@ssgenius](#): > > By providing these meals for free, as good as it feels, are we making this poverty even worse by creating a dependence on these meals and as a way to control the populations in these impovrished countries? On the last point, OP can clarify but I don’t think is saying giving food is making people starve and thus ‘controlling’ the population meaning killing people off. I think rather ‘control’ refers to control _of_ people via their dependence. And this IMO is also a valid consideration. It’s not that Non Governmental Organizations working in poor countries necessarily want to control local people, not directly anyway and not in any narrowly self interested way. But besides the dilemma of ‘give a man a fish v teach a man to fish’ even if the NGO’s try to steer their programs toward ‘teach to fish’ they can still have the effect of undermining the government of the country. The NGO('s) become the source of services and that lessens the pressure on local govt’s to improve. This is not intuitive to inhabitants of rich western countries where the question is often whether the govt is going to squeeze out all other types of civic organizations, it’s so powerful. Even though govt’s in poor countries are more likely to resort to armed force within their countries, they are fundamentally weak. And poor governance is a central reason why chronically poor countries remain that way. If the NGO’s always work through the local govt’s then you can end up with the familiar ‘the aid doesn’t get to the people who need it’, via corruption. But constantly circumventing those govts is not a problem free solution in the long run. Sooner or later those govts have to become more capable and less corrupt for their countries to ever not be desperately poor. So there’s another balancing act to be performed there. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/35 "2017-08-28T18:47:33Z")
There is a vast difference between shorter term emergency aid, such as is needed now in south Texas, and long term aid, such as has been going on in Haiti and other places for many, many years. Short(er) term emergency aid gets people through the initial disaster, whatever that may have been, and leaves once the community is back on its feet. Groups and individuals are very good at this type of aid and it is not nearly as prone to creating dependence as long term aid/relief efforts. Long term aid is more associated with failed government, failed systems or long term warfare. This [insightful article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jerrybowyer/2013/07/30/your-help-is-hurting-how-church-foreign-aid-programs-make-things-worse/#d90d7f068219)outlines some of the pitfalls in the traditional approach to long term aid. There are certainly effective ways to help people both short term and long term, but the long term requires much more thought, planning and cohesiveness to be truly successful. ---
**Author:** ![Ispolkom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47774/32.png) [@Ispolkom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ispolkom)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/36 "2017-08-28T19:30:33Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#): > > I’ve heard that a lot of charities use volunteer labor as a way to get potential donors personally engaged with a cause, and thus more likely to give money. This has been my experience. People like to feel a human connection to their charity that donating money doesn’t provide. Me, I prefer donating anonymously to charities whose financial statements I’ve researched. No human connection, no emotion, just efficiency. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/37 "2017-08-28T19:52:19Z")
You have immediate help and long term help. You fall under immediate help extended. Usually immediate help is reserved for emergency situations (starving people, get them some food). Immediate help is cheap, and requires little more than slave labor to accomplish as it pulls at the heartstrings and have people line up to help in 103F heat. But it is temporary. Long term help is expensive and thankless and few want to actually get down and dirty and do this and fewer still want to finance this and it requires a good deal of education plus local knowledge, which managing the both is another level of hell. Then there is long term short term help where you just keep providing the short term help forever, which is where it appears you are. It appears better, and actually many would say it looks better then actually providing a solution. But really unless you have a better solution this is better then nothing till a better solution arrives. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/38 "2017-08-28T20:03:38Z")
> [@Ispolkom](#): > > Me, I prefer donating anonymously to charities whose financial statements I’ve researched. No human connection, no emotion, just efficiency. **Yes.** My money is much more useful than my meager talents and the quality of volunteer experiences for occasional volunteers is a crapshoot. OTOH, if I do get to retire, and can commit to an on-going volunteer gig, and am treated more like an employee because they can count on me, that could work. ---
**Author:** ![ssgenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@ssgenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssgenius)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/39 "2017-08-28T20:37:57Z")
Thanks for the replies. Very insightful ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757/40 "2017-08-28T21:08:09Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#): > > I’ve heard that a lot of charities use volunteer labor as a way to get potential donors personally engaged with a cause, and thus more likely to give money. In this particular case, the hundred volunteers might have been moved to give thousands of dollars for this event, and maybe even thousands of dollars more in the future. > > If they had the money regardless of volunteer/donors, it would probably be a hell of a lot cheaper and more efficient to set up a proper food packaging facility and hire a handful of machine operators. It is absolutely the case that the only reason charities ask you to work as a volunteer is to forge a personal attachment by the volunteers. They have machines that can bag rice thousands of times faster than any human volunteers. The volunteers cost more than just purchasing the packaged goods wholesale. But without that connection the volunteers will donate to some other cause, like homeless guinea pigs or something. They’d much rather you donated $20 than to spend 2 hours working as a volunteer, but the volunteers are the people who donate the cash. Making you work as a volunteer is how they earn the cash donations. As for feeding hungry people, the absolute best way to do that would be to take cash and buy food from local farmers to feed local refugees. That way the local farmers get paid, the people get food they are familiar with, and people get fed. The problem of course is that buying surplus grain and shipping it overseas is a way to subsidize American agribusiness. Why should some farmer in Nigeria get those subsidies when they can go to Archer Daniels Midland instead? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-really-helping-the-poor/794757.md?page=3)