# Is this rude or am I old? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 20, 2010, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341 "2010-07-20T13:08:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/61 "2010-07-21T14:15:23Z")
Sheesh, people. Seriously! I’m sure that in small offices New Yorkers know everybody too - I just thought that when I said “elevator” people would assume I meant the kind of building where everybody works for a hundred different companies and doesn’t know anybody else at all, which is a different social dynamic from what I was describing! ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/62 "2010-07-21T14:16:54Z")
Boy, those New Yorkers sure are thin skinned… ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/63 "2010-07-21T14:25:05Z")
> [@Sigmagirl](#): > > How come my cell phone won’t work in an elevator? You’re not yelling loud enough. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/64 "2010-07-21T15:06:08Z")
So, **Zsofia,** if the woman were not on her phone but instead was listening to her MP3 player or reading a book and didn’t engage with you to say hi or make small talk, would that be rude, in your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/65 "2010-07-21T15:19:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Telephone conversations are not like face-to-face conversations. > > When two people are talking in close physical proximity (often particularly when they have been walking together) their voices and body language become closely modulated to the person they are speaking with. (Of course some people are just louder than others, but that difference is maintained when they get on the phone.) The rhythm of one speaking, then the other, bonds them; they form a sort of social molecule. As long as the two of them are getting along, not having a fight, they do not disturb the social space. Whereas one person, distracted from her or his actual physical surroundings, speaking at unnatural volume to a person not present–whose responses are not present–is a disruption. I’m not seeing this at all. The two people who are actually part of the conversation are doing fine either way. The only inconvenience in a cell-phone conversation is to eavesdroppers who find they can’t listen in. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/66 "2010-07-21T17:03:25Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > … I said that to make it clear that it’s a small place where everybody knows everybody. . . > [@Zsofia](#): > > Couple hundred people in this building and we all know each other and mostly know each other’s names, although the girl in question I just can’t ever remember because the people in that office are totally interchangeable. But anyway. . So, to sum up what you said: everybody knows everybody, except that you don’t know the girl in question at all, which is OK because her co-workers - unique among all offices in your building - are totally interchangeable to you and therefore not part of the “everybody knows everybody” rule … But SHE’S the one being rude? Here’s my take: you can’t be bothered to know her name. She can’t be bothered to nod and acknowlege your presence. Why should your feathers be ruffled now? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/67 "2010-07-21T17:09:36Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > \ > **Telephone conversations are not like face-to-face conversations.** > > When two people are talking in close physical proximity (often particularly when they have been walking together) their voices and body language become closely modulated to the person they are speaking with. (Of course some people are just louder than others, but that difference is maintained when they get on the phone.) The rhythm of one speaking, then the other, bonds them; they form a sort of social molecule. As long as the two of them are getting along, not having a fight, they do not disturb the social space. Whereas one person, _distracted_ from her or his actual physical surroundings, speaking at unnatural volume to a person not present–whose responses are not present–is a disruption. Exactly. I’m not sure why people like **Little Nemo** don’t understand this - it seems obvious to me. Maybe that’s why people are as rude as they are on cellphones - I take my cell calls off to the side and privately; I don’t just walk around blatting as loud as I like on a cellphone. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/68 "2010-07-21T17:09:41Z")
It’s a library. There’s a PR department that’s kind of insular and has a revolving cast of girls who all look alike. Plus, I’m bad with names. I’d nod at her in the grocery store. That sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/69 "2010-07-21T17:14:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m not seeing this at all. The two people who are actually part of the conversation are doing fine either way. The only inconvenience in a cell-phone conversation is to eavesdroppers who find they can’t listen in. But when your wedged in an elevator your pretty much forced to listen to a cell phone conversation, and as others have pointed out HALF of it, which is even more irrititating. And then you’ve got the whole possible “its the kinda conversation I’d rather not hear thank you very much”. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/70 "2010-07-21T17:19:03Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Exactly. I’m not sure why people like **Little Nemo** don’t understand this - it seems obvious to me. Maybe that’s why people are as rude as they are on cellphones - I take my cell calls off to the side and privately; I don’t just walk around blatting as loud as I like on a cellphone. I don’t get the rudeness, either. Why should it bother me that I’m only hearing half a conversation? How do you people stand public transportation? What gets me a little bit is when I see people seemingly talking to themselves using those Bluetooth headsets. That’s a bit unnerving. First time I saw it, I just thought I was witness to somebody finally just losing their shit. But being on a phone in a public place? As long as you’re not dividing your attention between the phone and interacting with a human being in a business transaction, or screaming into it like you’re trying to talk to somebody across a crowded room, I really don’t see the big deal. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/71 "2010-07-21T17:26:25Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > I get what they were saying, no offense. You may not have intended it to sound like this, but it was like: > > Now, this is a small office building where we’re all friends and know each other, and it’s so much nicer than those New York skyscrapers where no one knows anyone and it’s just so impersonal, unlike our nice (Southern) office! > > That was the mild impression that I got, as well. From one “Z” to another … 😃 Thanks for the clarification, **Zweisamkeit**. That was better phrased than some others put it. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/72 "2010-07-21T17:44:50Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I think being virtually FORCED to listen to a LOUD PERSONAL conversation that you can only hear HALF of is faily unpleasnt. … That is why, when I’m subjected to that, I tap the offender on the shoulder and say “excuse me, your end of this conversation is so fascinating, I’d like to hear the other half as well, would please turn on your speaker-phone function? Thank you.” ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/73 "2010-07-21T17:46:51Z")
**spark240** has done a nice job of describing why a single person talking on a cellphone is different than two people quietly conversing. If you don’t see it, maybe it isn’t different to you; it definitely is to me. They act differently, and they invoke a different response in me. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/74 "2010-07-21T17:55:39Z")
> [@](#): > > But when your wedged in an elevator your pretty much forced to listen to a cell phone conversation, and as others have pointed out HALF of it, which is even more irrititating. And then you’ve got the whole possible “its the kinda conversation I’d rather not hear thank you very much”. And if she had been talking to another person you wouldn’t have been “forced” to listen? People have conversations in public places all the time. It’s not unnatural behavior. What difference does it make if they’re having a conversation face to face or over a telephone? If anything, a telephone conversation is less distracting - it’s only half the dialogue. The only people I can see being annoyed about a telephone conversation are frustrated eavesdroppers and people who dislike cellphones on principle. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/75 "2010-07-21T18:32:20Z")
[The Master speaks](http://books.google.com/books?id=FOodocaTLsMC&pg=PA244&lpg=PA244#v=onepage&q&f=false). (See “The Rules,” pp. 244-45) ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/76 "2010-07-21T20:25:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And if she had been talking to another person you wouldn’t have been “forced” to listen? People have conversations in public places all the time. It’s not unnatural behavior. > > What difference does it make if they’re having a conversation face to face or over a telephone? If anything, a telephone conversation is less distracting - it’s only half the dialogue. No, it’s actually more distracting. For centuries and centuries of human existence, if another person was in your sphere of awareness, there was one of only three possibilities: 1. He/she is talking to you 2. He/she is talking to someone else (who is also within your sphere of awareness) 3. He/she is not talking at all “Eavesdropping” on a conversation that falls into category #2 is not the issue. We all have the ability to “tune out” conversations that are going on around us that don’t involve us. But this doesn’t mean we’re unaware that they’re taking place. We hear, at a near-subliminal level, the rise and fall of the cadence of the voices involved, the pauses as one person stops speaking and another person begins, etc. If someone raises his or her voice in anger in the course of one of these conversations, or even switches to a very different inflection without changing the decibel level, that conversation suddenly switches from background noise to something that captures our attention. For those of us who’ve lived most of our lives in an era where only scenarios 1 through 3 above were possible, a one-sided conversation doesn’t follow the give-and-take pattern I spoke of. A burst of one person talking, followed by a long pause during which nothing is heard, followed by that person talking again, doesn’t blend comfortingly into the background as before. I can understand that someone who has never experienced a world without cell phones would find nothing unusual about one-sided public conversations. I would hope for a similar understanding for us geezers who have far more years of experiencing it the other way. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/77 "2010-07-21T20:44:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And if she had been talking to another person you wouldn’t have been “forced” to listen? People have conversations in public places all the time. It’s not unnatural behavior. > . Other posters have covered your other points. On this one I will note in AN ELEVATOR I CANNOT escape the conversation, one side or two sided. And you are most likely WAY more close to me than if I am sitting out in public having lunch. for example. And for that matter, I generally do NOT have conversations in an elevator with an aquaintance riding along with me, pretending the other people are not there. Which, I think, brings us to a basic issue some folks have with people glued to their cell phones. The cell phone user is placing their emphasis on something/someone other than where they are at, fuck the other people around them. Yeah, me being trapped in an elevator for a short period of time with cell phone jabberer is pretty darn low on my rudometer scale, but OTOH I don’t see anything particularly polite or considerate about it either. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341/78 "2010-07-21T20:47:24Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > She has no social obligation to you simply ecause you are sharing an elevator. If she invited you to dinner, and then spent the whole time texting, yes, she has broken an obligation. (I have a friend who is _that_ obsessed with her blackberry!) But the only infraction here was the loud talking. This. If I’m having a conversation in a public space of any kind and I want to stay in that conversation, then that’s what’s going to happen. Social convention was hammered out way before mobile phones and needs a street adjustment. Now, as far as what I find _annoying_ the mindless yammering of some reality-tv addled tartlet in those sandal boot things and last nights’ clubwear on the bus going on about the Kardashians makes me want to kick kittens, but rude? Nope. She paid for her space, I paid for mine, she’s using hers to talk and I can use mine to fart. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-rude-or-am-i-old/547341.md?page=3)