# Is this sentence grammatical? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 8, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303 "2016-05-08T16:40:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/1 "2016-05-08T16:40:35Z")
Obviously the sentence “David, Sarah and myself went to the park.” is wrong wrong wrong despite the masses of people I hear using that format. However “David, Sarah and my good self went to the park.” although pretentious doesn’t sound _wrong_ to my ears. I can’t figure why the first sentence would be wrong and the second right though. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/2 "2016-05-08T16:48:12Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > Obviously the sentence “David, Sarah and myself went to the park.” is wrong wrong wrong despite the masses of people I hear using that format. However “David, Sarah and my good self went to the park.” although pretentious doesn’t sound _wrong_ to my ears. I can’t figure why the first sentence would be wrong and the second right though. I think the second is still wrong. “David went to the park.”-Good “Sarah went to the park.”-Good “Myself went to the park.”-Bad “My good self went to the park.”-What do _you_ think? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/3 "2016-05-08T16:55:37Z")
Grammatical version. David, Sarah and I myself went to the park. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/4 "2016-05-08T16:58:03Z")
Or (if you must) “David, Sarah and I my good self…” ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/5 "2016-05-08T16:59:45Z")
“Myself” is not a subject-form (i.e., nominative) pronoun, so it does not belong ahead of a verb. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/6 "2016-05-08T17:42:15Z")
I’m gonna buck the trend and agree that, though incorrect, “my good self” doesn’t violate any laws of grammar. Breaking up “myself” into separate words enables “self” to be used nominatively, as in “one’s own self.” However the sentence now, though grammatically correct, is nevertheless incorrect. David and Sarah are going to the park with YOU, not your self. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/7 "2016-05-08T20:24:06Z")
Agreed with panache, “My good self” though unusual to say seems to be ok. I don’t see why it’s impossible for David and Sarah to go with your good self, but the problem is the lack of clarity about ‘good self’ means. I suppose Dr. Jekyll could make such a statement. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/8 "2016-05-08T20:31:31Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I’m gonna buck the trend and agree that, though incorrect, “my good self” doesn’t violate any laws of grammar. Breaking up “myself” into separate words enables “self” to be used nominatively, as in “one’s own self.” > > However the sentence now, though grammatically correct, is nevertheless incorrect. David and Sarah are going to the park with YOU, not your self. Nah, I was feeling under the weather, so I stayed home (even though they insisted that the fresh air would make me feel better). Anyway, I have a guy that I pay to take on my selfing responsibilities on weekends, so I called him up, and he was available, so I sent him. Not to sound too paranoid, but I think David and Sarah like him better than they do me. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/9 "2016-05-08T20:31:55Z")
What if it is my _fiendish_ self? ---
**Author:** ![Sampsiceramos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Sampsiceramos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampsiceramos)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/10 "2016-05-08T20:49:04Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > What if it is my _fiendish_ self? Well, for starters, you’re going to need an old priest and a young priest. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/11 "2016-05-08T20:59:23Z")
That’s an interesting way to think of the two priests, especially since the young one is now dead and the old one is not only still alive but still acting. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/12 "2016-05-08T22:03:18Z")
Speaking of “I, myself”… always strikes me as being redundant. “I, myself” as opposed to “I, someone else.” I know there’s more to it than that, but still. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/13 "2016-05-09T04:58:51Z")
It’s just filler, isn’t it? So the speaker doesn’t have to say “_uhhh_” while selecting his next word or phrase? ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/14 "2016-05-09T05:20:09Z")
After the same pattern … “David, Sarah, and your lazy ass were all down at the park rather than doing an honest day’s work.” Yep, sounds fine to me. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/15 "2016-05-09T05:33:04Z")
“Myself” is an emphatic pronoun. It has the same form in both subjective and objective contexts. In the subjective, it’s usually used in apposition to the standard pronoun (“I”): _“Many people think she’s attractive, but I don’t see it myself.”_ Or _“. . . I myself do not.”_ In the objective, it’s usually used on its own: _“There were only five guests at the hotel, besides myself.”_ The question is, is this a matter of grammar or just of idiom? Take a sentence like: _“Right now you, Jack and me myself are the only people in the world who know this secret.”_ The _myself_ isn’t necessary there; it’s included for emphasis. I wouldn’t say that that sentence was ungrammatical. So, if _myself_ is usually used on its own in the objective context, but can be used in apposition to _me_, and if it’s usually used in apposition to _I_ in the subjective context, can we say that in that context it may never be used on its own? (_“John opened for the red team; myself for the blue.”_) I don’t think we can say such a usage would be ungrammatical; just that it’s an unusual or jarring idiom. So, the answer to the OP’s question is that the first sentence he quotes (_“David, Sarah and myself went to the park.”_) is not, in my view, wrong. It may be awkward, but that’s not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![zoogirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b9bd4f/32.png) [@zoogirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoogirl)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/16 "2016-05-09T06:56:44Z")
How about ‘‘I went to the park, with David and Sarah’’. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/17 "2016-05-09T08:00:01Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Grammatical version. > > David, Sarah and I myself went to the park. > [@zoogirl](#): > > How about ‘‘I went to the park, with David and Sarah’’. Thank you, but the purpose of this thread is not to recompose the sentences into something which is unambiguously acceptable–which any one of us could have done, including the OP, I’m sure. Rather, the OP wants to discuss the nature of these particular phrases, as they are in the original post. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/18 "2016-05-09T09:09:13Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > Obviously the sentence “David, Sarah and myself went to the park.” is wrong wrong wrong despite the masses of people I hear using that format. That means it isn’t grammatically wrong, only stylistically wrong, and then only according to some styles. Grammar is decided based on observed usage. Style is handed down from on high. Confusing them is rather uncomfortably close to classism and, therefore, racism. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/19 "2016-05-09T09:59:08Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Speaking of “I, myself”… > always strikes me as being redundant. “I, myself” as opposed to “I, someone else.” I know there’s more to it than that, but still. It may surprise you to learn that the appositive form “I, myself” was used long before people started using “myself” alone as a non-reflexive pronoun. There are examples of the appositive going back to the 9th century, whereas the pronominal form dates from only around 1200. And even as far back as the Middle Ages, it was used in the nominative – i.e., as the subject of a sentence, which is what the OP is asking about. The _Oxford English Dictionary_ claims this nominative form is in current usage, with the following note: > [@](#): > > Except at the beginning of an enumeration, or as simple predicate, _myself_ in this use now expresses no special emphasis, being preferred in order to avoid the awkwardness of _I_. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303/20 "2016-05-09T10:10:40Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > That means it isn’t grammatically wrong, only stylistically wrong, and then only according to some styles. Grammar is decided based on observed usage. Style is handed down from on high. Confusing them is rather uncomfortably close to classism and, therefore, racism. It doesn’t matter how many people start to use “myself” as a non-reflexive pronoun; it will still be wrong and people who do it will be stupid, even if in 70 years time I’m the very last old man who sees the difference. Cheers to **panache45** , I think that was well summed up. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sentence-grammatical/754303.md?page=2)