# Is This Sound Conjecture Or Mere Solipsism? (Psych 101) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 26, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433 "2010-10-26T19:20:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/21 "2010-10-26T22:48:26Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > “Science” is anecdotal by Nature. No it’s not. You don’t have the first idea of what science is, or how it operates. You’re just waving the term around to hide the fact that you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. And blaming victims of illness or injury for their own misfortune is a really shitty thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/22 "2010-10-26T22:49:22Z")
> [@](#): > > One more time, please stay on topic. The topic is whether this idea is sound or not. The conclusion is that it’s complete and utter bollocks, and that any attempt at a defense of it must necessarily be nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/23 "2010-10-26T23:04:59Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > One more time, please stay on topic. I would love to, but your reply to **Lemur866** was utterly nonsensical. The article you cited is not sound conjecture. You had it right when you asked if it was mere Solipsism. And since you are merely a representation of myself, with no independent existence, I will stop talking to myself now. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/24 "2010-10-26T23:19:09Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > “Science” is anecdotal by Nature. Speaking as an actual scientist, what the hell is this even supposed to mean? Nature is telling us stories and we call it “science”? And why am I bothering to even type this? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/25 "2010-10-26T23:21:05Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Speaking as an actual scientist, what the hell is this even supposed to mean? Nature is telling us stories and we call it “science”? And why am I bothering to even type this? Actually, I was typing it. ETA I think he meant that [Science](http://www.sciencemag.org/) is republished as anecdotes in [Nature](http://www.nature.com/nature/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/26 "2010-10-27T01:26:50Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > … And blaming victims of illness or injury for their own misfortune is a really shitty thing to do. No blame. Responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/27 "2010-10-27T01:28:43Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Speaking as an actual scientist, what the hell is this even supposed to mean? Nature is telling us stories and we call it “science”? And why am I bothering to even type this? You have an interest in scientific discourse? ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/28 "2010-10-27T01:30:57Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > … And since you are merely a representation of myself, with no independent existence, I will stop talking to myself now. Can’t wait not to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/29 "2010-10-27T02:13:49Z")
> [@](#): > > You have an interest in scientific discourse? There’s nothing like a good scientific discourse. And this is nothing like it. Yes, we like scientific discourse, which is why we’re trying to get you to engage in such. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/30 "2010-10-27T03:13:43Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > You have an interest in scientific discourse? Are you going to even attempt to answer anyone’s questions, or are you going to just keep firing back more vague questions in response? ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/31 "2010-10-27T03:17:20Z")
I think the following two excerpts are the essence of the Original Post: [INDENT] 1. THE PURPOSE OF PSYCHOTHERAPY Very simply, the purpose of psychotherapy is to remove the blocks to truth.(…) No one in this world escapes fear, but everyone can reconsider its causes and learn to evaluate them correctly. …[/INDENT] My take is that understanding “truth” and the basis of your fears is an okay thing to do. However, I do like happiness, and ignoring certain truths (_All we are is dust in the wind._) can help us be happy. [INDENT]2. THE PROCESS OF PSYCHOTHERAPY Psychotherapy is a process that changes the view of the self.(…) psychotherapy can hardly be expected to establish reality (…) Its whole function, in the end, is to help the patient deal with one fundamental error; the belief that anger brings him something he really wants.[/INDENT] The second excerpt contends that anger is not a useful emotion. I can’t agree with that. We can’t be Spockish automatons and be happy humans. If a dictator is killing civilians I hope that is always going to make me angry. I don’t buy the notion that we can just calmly examine alternatives, and implement useful strategies to stop dictators from killing civilians. Anger can be a powerful source for good. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/32 "2010-10-27T05:11:23Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > PSYCHOTHERAPY: PURPOSE, PROCESS AND PRACTICE > > [http://www.surrenderworks.com/acim\_on\_psychotherapy.html](http://www.surrenderworks.com/acim_on_psychotherapy.html) It’s _The Secret_ in a lab coat. Absolute garbage. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/33 "2010-10-27T11:50:51Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Cum see, come sah? I think you’re misunderstanding what I said. I may be wrong, since I really don’t have a clue what you’re trying to say here. I’m quite sure you can be a lot more clear if you put some effort into it. So I’ll make myself clear with regards to the question you posted in the OP: It’s **not** sound conjecture, it’s complete bollocks that just happens to smell a lot like a solipsism. Appendicitis is not a psychological disorder. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/34 "2010-10-27T12:25:31Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > That person needs psychotherapy. Purely psychosomatic. They’re a nut. They’re crazy in the coconut. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/35 "2010-10-27T15:41:31Z")
Look, there’s no such thing as insanity. It’s all in their heads. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/36 "2010-10-27T17:31:22Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > No blame. Responsibility. Telling victims of disease or injury that they’re “responsible” for their misfortune because they thought bad thoughts is a shitty thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/37 "2010-10-27T18:35:22Z")
It would really lower medicare costs if we adopted this model to healthcare (social security too, come to think of it). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/38 "2010-10-27T20:05:41Z")
“Mere solipsism” is being magnanimous. Unless the choice includes an “utter nonsense” option, it is an unsuitable tool to measure the quotes in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![dzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@dzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzero)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/39 "2010-10-28T09:47:23Z")
This appears to be a site for [Sufi mysticism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism). Like most mysticism the object is to go beyond the limitations imposed by language and logic. So often, attempts to explain the ideas behind the belief end up sounding nonsensical unless you are steeped in the language of that philosophy/religion. Anyone who has studied Zen has seen this just in the use of meditation koans - like ‘the sound of one hand clapping.’ On its face it’s a ridiculous question - or more accurately, a contradiction in terms. But that’s actually the whole point of it. I don’t doubt that these people believe what they’re saying in an absolute sense though, but I don’t think it serves any purpose to criticize it from outside of the framework under which it developed. I doubt that such criticisms would even be recognized as valid. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433/40 "2010-10-28T11:26:57Z")
> [@dzero](#): > > This appears to be a site for [Sufi mysticism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism). Like most mysticism the object is to go beyond the limitations imposed by language and logic. So often, attempts to explain the ideas behind the belief end up sounding nonsensical unless you are steeped in the language of that philosophy/religion. Ah, a breath of fresh air. Thanks for your cite and welcome to the Boards. The “spell” of words has many in thrall here. I was close to unsubscribing so we can all thank/blame you for resuscitating the OP. From your cite > [@](#): > > The word dhikr is commonly translated as “remembrance” or “invocation”. In reality, it has taken a wide range and various layers of meaning.[1] For instance, while dhikr is commonly understood as the practice of remembering God, … This is the ultimate aim of PPPP. > [@](#): > > To enter the way of Sufism, the seeker begins by finding a teacher, as the connection to the teacher is considered necessary for the growth of the pupil. The teacher, to be genuine, must have received the authorization to teach (ijazah) of another Master of the Way, in an unbroken succession (silsilah) leading back to Sufism’s origin with Muhammad. And here, it “differs”. Unless, of course, one recognizes that we all have the “authorization” to listen to others without judgement and, in the process, learn to hear what God has to say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-sound-conjecture-or-mere-solipsism-psych-101/558433.md?page=3)