# Is this starting salary ridiculous? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 17, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238 "2015-05-17T14:22:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/41 "2015-05-18T17:37:50Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Her best offer was UT Austin. Not sure what that means… UT Austin has a pretty highly regarded (top 20) psychology department. Typically though; with a psychology doctorate, you’re expected to go into private practice, which can be quite lucrative. I imagine the number of positions in academia to be relatively tiny by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/42 "2015-05-18T19:08:55Z")
I have no quarrel with UT, and know next to nothing about psychology. The point is: It was TX. Maybe one of the nicer niches in TX, but TX. The little lady was _not_ a TX girl - she spent 4 months looking and then accepted the non-teaching position. She was listed as co-author on a textbook - posthumously. The only book credit in her name. When she was given the 90 day prognoses, she was back in her old stomping grounds (UoF) within a week or so. Not a TX girl. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/43 "2015-05-18T19:13:32Z")
I didn’t make it clear - her job had nothing to do with Psychology - it was an administrative position. I really can’t imagine her treating patients. Apparently she couldn’t either. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/44 "2015-05-19T01:02:18Z")
> [@DrumBum](#): > > Perhaps your friend might look into the O&G industry. As of last year, the starting salary for a geophysicist with an MS was $90,000 to $110,000. The downside of this is that work locations for new hires is likely to be in Texas. He is a geophysist; from the little I know about him, he doesn’t seem like the type of person who would step foot in Texas even for a quarter million doors, unless it was Austin. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/45 "2015-05-19T01:04:19Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Not sure what that means… UT Austin has a pretty highly regarded (top 20) psychology department. > > Typically though; with a psychology doctorate, you’re expected to go into private practice, which can be quite lucrative. I imagine the number of positions in academia to be relatively tiny by comparison. My sister is a psychologist - she makes far more money than this guy is being offered - it’s not even close. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/46 "2015-05-19T01:10:54Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I don’t think people really understand how to make a lot of money and think “lots of degrees = big cash payout”. I wasn’t thinking of it that way - I thought he had a high quality degree. My thinking was that the quality of his degree was something much better than what most people have. I did not know that the job market for physics was as unsteady as many of the posters are saying - even for someone who I would consider the cream of the crop. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/47 "2015-05-19T01:26:01Z")
Would he consider overseas? Not all oil and gas is in TX/OK. This can also be grim: Mining. Poke a rock and find the ore. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/48 "2015-05-19T08:38:35Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > I wasn’t thinking of it that way - I thought he had a high quality degree. My thinking was that the quality of his degree was something much better than what most people have. > > I did not know that the job market for physics was as unsteady as many of the posters are saying - even for someone who I would consider the cream of the crop. That’s how most people think. They look at the degree first and then figure “it’s a fancy degree from a good school. It should be worth something!” Companies don’t care about what your degree is or even really how “smart” you are unless it translates into skills that make money for their business. I don’t know the job market for physics PhDs, but I would assume it largely consists of: - academics - applying their math and statistics knowledge to areas like tech, finance or data science. - working at management consulting firms like McKinsey where they just want really smart people with impressive academic credentials. I mean there’s not a local “physics plant” where PhDs can go work at. ---
**Author:** ![DrumBum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@DrumBum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrumBum)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/49 "2015-05-19T12:37:46Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Also, there are large fluctuations in the oil and gas industry. That 90-110k is nice…but every few years, there’s an oil price crash and you could be laid off for a few years. (the reason for oil price crashes and huge spikes is because demand for oil is very inelastic) True, although the demand is still there and a PhD in Geophysics from MIT is in a far better position than most. In an overseas site like Angola, a presentation by the operators of a concession to partners and national oil company representatives impresses the participants and can carry a a good bit of weight. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/50 "2015-05-19T13:34:54Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Lawyers make a lot of money ($160k starting after law school) but that’s IF you get a job at a top tier law firm. And that’s a highly competitive “if”. Compensation tends to stay flat for about ten years until you make “partner”. Then you can make salaries around $1M plus profit sharing. Keep in mind that 80k working for a magazine might work out to be the same _hourly_ wage as 160k working at a law firm or in finance. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/51 "2015-05-19T15:09:51Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Keep in mind that 80k working for a magazine might work out to be the same _hourly_ wage as 160k working at a law firm or in finance. People always say stuff like that regarding careers in finance, law, consulting or Big-4 accounting. While it’s true that when you account for all the overtime, the per hour rate might not be any different from a $40-$60k a year job, I say that doesn’t matter for several reasons: - Only your total income matters, not your rate. Doesn’t matter if you can bill your services out at $200 a year if you only work 5 hours. - As a practical matter, you can’t work two full-time professional jobs simultaneously. So even if you wanted to work 80 hours a week, where are you going to find another magazine that will let you work the evening shift? - Prioritizing hours, rates and vacation time over your long term career interests is the wrong mindset. Particularly when you’re starting your career. An entry level Analyst job at Deloitte might pay the same hourly rate as McDonalds due to all the unpaid overtime. But you would have to be moron to take the McDonalds job. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/52 "2015-05-19T15:18:56Z")
Of course it’s true that most people can’t work two full-time jobs. But lots of people work one full-time job and one part-time job and still don’t work as much as associates at Skadden. For a while I taught at a university while also working (normal human) full-time, and it was a great middle-ground. Maybe you don’t value very highly your free time at early and mid-career. And that’s certainly a valid choice. But there are a substantial number of people who disagree with you. I’d rather get to participate in raising my kids than retire early or retire in the .01%–and many people agree. And I say this having worked at a fancy law firm and having family members in each of the other careers you described, not as some outsider. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/53 "2015-05-22T18:13:01Z")
I think this story sounds fishy. A PhD in Physics from MIT and he can’t find a job making more than 50k? I work for a major defense contractor and we hire kids straight out of undergrads from shit schools for 50-60. A PhD from MIT even with no working experience would get you in the door At any science or engineering tech house for $100k/yr in even the worst parts of the country. Sounds like bullshit to me. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/54 "2015-05-22T18:27:41Z")
The person in the OP received a BS from MIT. The PhD is from Berkeley. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/55 "2015-05-22T18:45:44Z")
Government and academic positions are fairly notorious for being low-paying with better-than-typical benefits. Also, it depends on the level of experience and whether the individual has a degree that might make up for a lower-level of experience, and also what that person will be doing. For example, I graduated with a Masters degree in Archaeology and was moving on to my PhD and was offered a job for $17,000 doing field and lab work, with no benefits and had to provide my own transport. I wasn’t what you’d call a seasoned archaeologist and I didn’t have a ton of business acumen, though my degree was from a very prestigious university. But, digging in the dirt 10 cm at a time and taking photographs of features every once in a while and sieving dirt isn’t exactly rocket science. So I got an entry-level marketing position for more than twice that and moved onto writing and later product management instead. (And no, I never got my PhD - the job offers I received prior to going into my doctorate program highlighted for me what I’d probably be making later, and I just wasn’t committed enough to do that.) ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/56 "2015-05-22T20:32:53Z")
One of my professors in college would always tell us how great it was to be an engineer, how you made more money than any other major, how the majority of rich entrepreneurs had technical backgrounds, and how you could get a job any time even in a recession. But, he was careful to say, you had to be willing to move to where the jobs are. He said that in the previous 5 years, every single engineering grad got a job after graduation – except one. He said there was one guy who didn’t want to leave his girlfriend and refused to move for work. He was the only engineering grad he knew of who wasn’t employed as an engineer after graduation. So maybe this guy isn’t casting a wide enough net? If he refuses to move for a job, or is unnecessarily restricting the locations where he’ll work, he could be filtering out all the decent jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/57 "2015-05-22T20:35:49Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > He is a geophysist; from the little I know about him, he doesn’t seem like the type of person who would step foot in Texas even for a quarter million doors, unless it was Austin. Then he ought to be satisfied working in his preferred location & not be so crass as to worry about money. Did he love the field so much he didn’t check out employment opportunities? What are his classmates doing? How about the previous classes? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/58 "2015-05-22T23:11:21Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The person in the OP received a BS from MIT. The PhD is from Berkeley. No real diff. Not exactly Podunk U. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/59 "2015-05-22T23:18:42Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > I wasn’t thinking of it that way - I thought he had a high quality degree. My thinking was that the quality of his degree was something much better than what most people have. > > I did not know that the job market for physics was as unsteady as many of the posters are saying - even for someone who I would consider the cream of the crop. Of the physics specialties, his is one of the best paying I’d think. But there is not a lot of oil and gas in DC. Okay, he hates Texas. How about Oklahoma. The Dakotas? Any place with fracking which is just about anyplace. Or does he hate field work? I’m with **Bridget Burke**. He may be shooting himself in the foot. You don’t major in diplomacy if you never want to live in Washington or NY. I’m assuming that academics is out. Does he not like to publish? I’d think there would be openings since many new PhDs would get drawn to industry. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238/60 "2015-05-23T05:19:06Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > He is a geophysist; from the little I know about him, he doesn’t seem like the type of person who would step foot in Texas even for a quarter million doors, unless it was Austin. A PhD in geophysics isn’t a PhD in physics - at Berkeley, it comes from the Earth and Planetary Sciences Department. Berkeley has a top Geophysics program, but industry isn’t going to have the kind of pipeline from that California hippie haven that they’ll have from UT Austin or Princeton. I’d guess that the Berkeley degree is a plus for academic work and a minus for industry work. If he’s been out two or three years, what has he been doing in that time? The $50k offer sounds like a pretty standard postdoc in earth sciences (which is my field too), but that would usually be offered to a new graduate rather than someone who finished that long ago. Schools and government research facilities get away with paying postdocs that little for a number of reasons, but the primary reason is that very few PhD grads have the publication record to compete for a tenure track job, and postdoc positions offer the best opportunity to shore that record up. If you want to be a tenure track professor in an earth sciences field, you take a postdoc (off the top of my head, I can think of two recently professors without postdocs - both out of the same school with phenomenal publications records). > [@Voyager](#): > > I’m assuming that academics is out. Does he not like to publish? I’d think there would be openings since many new PhDs would get drawn to industry. I wouldn’t assume that he’s looked for an industry job - the lower paying job sounds like a bog standard postdoc, and the “magazine” position sounds more like an editor at a lower tier journal - as the OP said, he “[has to read … crap studies that aren’t even close to being fit for publishing in a serious science journal](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18372041&postcount=14).” In general, the grad students who want to go into industry do it with an MS instead of with a PhD. Some of those folks go back to school on the company’s dime and end up as industry scientists with PhDs. Companies do fund academic research, but they then like to hire the same students who did the work. If he hasn’t had a connection to industry over the course of his grad work, it’s going to be difficult (not impossible) for him to break into it now - and an aversion to Texas is going to make it even harder. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-starting-salary-ridiculous/720238.md?page=4)