# Is this the beginning of the end? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 22, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060 "2021-07-22T15:36:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/283 "2021-07-29T13:20:32Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > We have to be tolerant of openly white supremacist posters, or they’ll leave. By going to countries in Asia and Africa and setting up colonies, of course! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/284 "2021-07-29T13:39:56Z")
Holy shit, had no idea about his pro-imperialism stance. It was like my latest Substack was written with him in mind (note: it wasn’t): > **[Critical Race Theory and White Fragility](https://thewaythingsought2b.substack.com/p/critical-race-theory-and-white-fragility?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=copy)** > > Imagine being so ashamed of your history you don't want it taught to your children. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/285 "2021-07-29T13:42:07Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > By going to countries in Asia and Africa and setting up colonies, of course!   But purely for their benefit, to help those useless people get their shit together, out of the goodness of his heart! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/286 "2021-07-29T13:50:00Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > But purely for their benefit, to help those useless people get their shit together, out of the goodness of his heart! . It really is the White Man’s Burden… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/287 "2021-07-29T13:50:04Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > No, it really doesn’t. If I say “There’s a group of people both on the board and off it who really like anchovies on pizza”, that’s not the same as saying “ **RandomPoster#18** really likes anchovies on pizza.” That’s not what you’re saying, dammit. You’re saying the equivalent of, “Those rotten-fish-munching imbeciles are ruining every pizza joint,” and when people say, “I eat anchovies, you dick!” getting all mad because why are they insulting you? Talking about people as “tiresomely woke progressive types” is really insulting. You should stop, or you should own it. And that’s setting aside the delicious irony of your anger about “people deciding to change fairly fundamental operational-level societal operating stuff without asking me first,” and also favoring imperialism. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/288 "2021-07-29T13:52:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > And that’s setting aside the delicious irony of your anger about “people deciding to change fairly fundamental operational-level societal operating stuff without asking me first,” and also favoring imperialism. No, see, he has his shit together, so you have to ask him before you cause even the most minor of inconveniences. But _those people_ in other countries DON’T have their shit together, so it’s OK to seize their land and resources. Actually, I think Martini\_Enfield does NOT have his shit together. I propose we seize his house and set up a commune for transgender folks. Who’s with me?! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/289 "2021-07-29T13:58:18Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I propose we seize his house and set up a commune for transgender folks. Who’s with me?! Heh. I’d way rather him realize that his standards–on civility, on respect, and on imperialism–are doubled, and shrink them down to a single standard of respect and civility. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/290 "2021-07-29T14:04:02Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Heh. I’d way rather him realize that his standards–on civility, on respect, and on imperialism–are doubled Sure, it would be BEST for him to get his shit together on his own, but if he can’t or won’t we just have to seize his stuff and decide what’s best for him for a few decades. He may dislike it now, but when he’s enjoying all the increased prosperity it’d bring he’d have to realize it was for his own good! ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/291 "2021-07-29T14:23:20Z")
But we can sympathy for those poor “ethnic” people of course. Since white is the norm, everyone else is “ethnic”. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/292 "2021-07-29T19:48:29Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Actually, I think Martini\_Enfield does NOT have his shit together. I propose we seize his house and set up a commune for transgender folks. Who’s with me?! I don’t know about y’all, but I think he has a point. As an American, I look forward to being colonized by one of the countries that has it together. I’ll start practicing Norwegian this afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/293 "2021-07-29T20:01:46Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > I’ll start practicing Norwegian this afternoon. That won’t save you from the Norsemen hordes. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/294 "2021-07-29T20:02:23Z")
I’m relying on my charismatic smile for that. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/295 "2021-07-29T21:27:50Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > yes there are a few crazy-ass Conservative Republican politicians that hold those views. And guess what, there are a few crazy-ass Liberal Democrat politicians that do as well. And there are people on this board that agree with those politicians on both sides. I realize this post was a couple days and 160 posts ago, but I’ve gotta point out a fundamental difference: Persons on the both sides of the political divide take crazy positions, no doubt about it. But when someone on the left does it, there are always plenty of mainstream Dem politicians and left-of-center commentators ready and willing to take a potshot at them, to differentiate the mainstream from the crazies. On the right, it’s a rarity. Maybe there aren’t that many GOP pols taking Crazy Stand X, but generally none willing to call it out, either. And then after awhile, Crazy Stand X, having not been opposed by anyone in the party, often becomes the mainstream conservative/GOP position if it rouses enough of the rabble. And that’s how you get a party that’s overwhelmingly anti-vax and pro-insurrection. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/296 "2021-07-29T21:58:17Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > [Trans/nonbinary persons] are “weird” or “other”, though. They’re a tiny, _tiny_ minority of the overall population. I’m not sure we know that. I’m lefthanded. There was a time when lefthandedness was thought to be and treated as an aberration. And back then, the proportion of lefthanders in the population was thought to be way smaller than the 10-12% it actually is. We’ll have a much better idea of what proportion of the population is trans or nonbinary when people stop getting flak for being trans or nonbinary. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/297 "2021-07-29T22:17:25Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > There was a time when lefthandedness was thought to be and treated as an aberration. That idea still persists in the sense that the word “sinister”, which means left-sided in the original Latin, is synonymous for “evil” (and has been since late Middle English). Conversely, the Latin term for the right side, “dexter”, is associated with being skillful (such as the word dextrous/dexterity). ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2021, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/298 "2021-07-30T13:58:36Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here and explain why the customs are changing so that more and more people show their pronouns. If you were a transsexual or someone who otherwise had a difficult-to-determine gender, you would post your pronouns to avoid confusion. However, if only those people posted pronouns, then it’s singling them out as weird or other. > > So, in support of people who have changed their public gender or otherwise prefer to make it clear, more and more people are normalizing the practice. If everyone does this, it’s no longer weird or odd to post your pronouns, and it helps support people for whom posting them is more necessary. In what way does gender-ambivalent Pat, for whom stating a preferred pronoun is “more necessary”, benefit from gender/hetero-normative Kevin and Becky doing the same? All Pat requires and deserves from all Kevins and Beckies of the world is to be treated with respect and dignity and to be addressed with the preferred pronouns. I don’t know if Pat is served by well intentioned but otherwise gender normative people’s performative display of pronouns in their signature line. I realize you’re making the argument that it’s a show of solidarity and support for the trans-people. But I’m wondering if this is something the majority of this community wants or has ever asked for from people who, as trans-advocates, have never and will never need to take active steps to make that distinction in their daily lives. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2021, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/299 "2021-07-30T14:04:55Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > > [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > > > I’ll start practicing Norwegian this afternoon. > > That won’t save you from the Norsemen hordes. > [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > I’m relying on my charismatic smile for that. . 🎼 > So now you’d better stop and rebuild all your ruins > For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing > . 🎵 And since this is the end… “[Valhalla I’m coming](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRjH_gJbUqQ)!!!” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2021, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/300 "2021-07-30T14:32:49Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > > [@RitterSport](#): > > > > I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here and explain why the customs are changing so that more and more people show their pronouns. If you were a transsexual or someone who otherwise had a difficult-to-determine gender, you would post your pronouns to avoid confusion. However, if only those people posted pronouns, then it’s singling them out as weird or other. > > > > So, in support of people who have changed their public gender or otherwise prefer to make it clear, more and more people are normalizing the practice. If everyone does this, it’s no longer weird or odd to post your pronouns, and it helps support people for whom posting them is more necessary. > > In what way does gender-ambivalent Pat, for whom stating a preferred pronoun is “more necessary”, benefit from gender/hetero-normative Kevin and Becky doing the same? He already explained the rationale. If everybody does it, it makes it normal. It makes it where you don’t stand out as saying “you might not be able to tell if I’m a woman or a man.” It makes it where sharing your pronouns isn’t an announcement that you are trans. And, yes, it is a move supported by the trans community. Where do you think the idea came from? Why would trans allies be doing it, if not because they are echoing what trans people want? One of the basic concepts of allyship is that you echo what the minority in question is saying, rather than doing things on your own. Just type `sharing your pronouns` into Google. This is recommended basically everywhere by LGBTQ organizations. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2021, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/301 "2021-07-30T14:37:40Z")
It normalizes the practice. Otherwise, when you see someone posting their pronouns, you might thing, “well, that’s weird. What’s wrong with them?” Here, let me Google that for you, since you didn’t like my explanation or @Jimmy_Chitwood’s explanation above: > **[Why we should start using pronouns](https://prospect.org.uk/news/why-we-should-all-start-using-pronouns)** > > Have you seen somebody with he/him, she/her or they/them on their email signature or their social... ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2021, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/302 "2021-07-30T14:42:41Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > This is recommended basically everywhere by LGBTQ organizations. I’m not yet convinced that LGBTQ organizations are anymore representative of all transgender people any more than they are representative of all gay people. My best friend of 35+ years has never marched lock step with gay activists, nor, according to him, did his social circle of good friends. To say that LGBTQ represents them in a way that you claim it represents trans-people would be a mistake. And these are not people who are in any way secretive or shy about being openly gay. Same response to @RitterSport 's post above. I appreciate the explanation. I’m just not persuaded by it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060.md?page=16)