# Is this the beginning of the end? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 22, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060 "2021-07-22T15:36:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/122 "2021-07-26T11:04:57Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > That seems to be your go to response. I’m glad you read the rest of his post which made some really good points 🙄 If the second someone calls you “racist” or “sexist” or even says “fuck you” that you shut down completely on the conversation, how do you think people who come on here and hear things like “not all black people are the N word, but some are, and it’s OK to call those that” or “trans people are inherently mentally ill”? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/123 "2021-07-26T11:44:15Z")
Somewhere along the line we shifted from: “it’s important to fight ignorance” to: “it’s important to fight ignorance without hurting its feelings.” Just mind-boggling to watch the “facts don’t care about your feelings” crowd openly make that shift and pretend that they’ve always held this position. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/124 "2021-07-26T11:50:10Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Just mind-boggling to watch the “facts don’t care about your feelings” crowd openly make that shift and pretend that they’ve always held this position. That was always obvious bullshit. The most popular user of that phrase (not sure if he originated it) is Ben “Feelings don’t matter unless they are my feelings about my religion” Shapiro. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/125 "2021-07-26T12:21:37Z")
Newt Gingrich is a pretty big proponent of “feelings are more important than facts” crew. I remember this sequence from a few years ago: > **[Newt Gingrich Exemplifies Just How Unscientific America Is](https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2016/08/05/newt-gingrich-exemplifies-just-how-unscientific-america-is/?sh=3a4219135e47)** > > If you cherry-pick the results that fit your narrative and ignore the full suite of facts, is that any way to navigate a country? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/126 "2021-07-26T14:28:18Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Just mind-boggling to watch the “facts don’t care about your feelings” crowd openly make that shift and pretend that they’ve always held this position. I would argue against that premise because the following statements are not facts although many here think they are: “Conservatives are assholes.” “Republicans are racist.” “Transgendered people are wrong.” “Phil Jackson is an innovative coach.” etc. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/127 "2021-07-26T15:35:32Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > people who believe in civil rights and yet are Republican. Nope! They’re racists. It’s loads of shit like this that gets promulgated around here, that results in the “black and white” nature of this board, that will kill it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/128 "2021-07-26T20:19:37Z")
You can pretend these are not positions of leading GOP politicians or you can live in reality. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/129 "2021-07-26T22:15:40Z")
> [@Chatterbox1](#): > > > [@Roger\_That](#): > > > > “I don’t think calling people niggers is bigoted” > > Wow. Does that come up in conversation around here a lot? Actually _I_ went there once. In ATMB I think. Didn’t want to go there, but ended up doing it anyways. I’ve argued for a lot of stuff that’s been mentioned here as ‘beyond the pale’, whether by **BigT** sincerely or **mikecurtis** as hyperbole, or whoever. I have argued in favor of explicit racial quotas. I explicitly argued against banning misogyny/racism from the Pit. I have argued against same-sex marriage. I have argued that one can wish an entire race simply “went away”, without harmful intent. I have argued that religion should be a prominent force in public policy debates. To a limited extent I argued that the pro-life position is consistent. I questioned women in-thread why they thought “that” in “I’d hit that” makes the sentence more offensive. I argued that it isn’t cowardly to support military action when I’m not in the military. I think I argued against some extents of statutory rape statutes. I argued that Trump should be acquitted during his impeachment trial. I also defended (literal) Nazis on more than one occasion. I only joined in 2019 so this is all recent. I mean, yeah, the SDMB is pretty left leaning… but it’s clearly not an echo chamber full of snowflakes. If we’re looking at the beginning of the end, there’s a long way to go yet. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/130 "2021-07-27T00:11:50Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > You can pretend these are not positions of leading GOP politicians or you can live in reality. Let’s take one. What politician advocates putting women in prison for having a miscarriage? ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/131 "2021-07-27T00:17:47Z")
Out of curiosity, out of all those reprehensible positions on that list, why did you choose that particular one? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/132 "2021-07-27T00:32:29Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Let’s take one. What politician advocates putting women in prison for having a miscarriage? That would be Gov Brian Kemp of Georgia. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/133 "2021-07-27T01:06:27Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > Out of curiosity, out of all those reprehensible positions on that list, why did you choose that particular one? Because it is one of the more ridiculous potshots that pass as “facts” these day on the SD. The main point is that yes there are a few crazy-ass Conservative Republican politicians that hold those views. And guess what, there are a few crazy-ass Liberal Democrat politicians that do as well. And there are people on this board that agree with those politicians on both sides. But now debate is painting ALL conservatives with the same broad brush. There is no civil debate to be had here on the Georgia abortion law. No actual examination of what the law says and doesn’t say. No limiting the discussion to Georgia Republicans (and by the way, some voted against it). No it is “All conservatives/Republicans want to imprison women who miscarry.” with a ton of sycophants agreeing. THAT is was passes as debate on the SD now. > [@Babale](#): > > That would be Gov Brian Kemp of Georgia. Maybe you should read [a more reputable source](https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/may/24/georgia-abortion-bill-prison-fact-check/) than Alyssa Milano ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/134 "2021-07-27T01:16:45Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Because it is one of the more ridiculous potshots that pass as “facts” these day on the SD. Fair, and exactly why I asked; because out of all of those positions listed, it is the most “ridiculous”; as in, mildly hyperbolic. Remember, though, that the original list was a list of the current Trumpian “conservative” positions; which are very much not actually conservative, but highly reactionary. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > conservatives/Republicans Those two words are no longer even CLOSE to being synonymous. At this point, if you want to defend being a Republican, you are not defending being a conservative; I’ve had plenty of respectful, policy-based discussions with conservatives in the past. Most of those with whom I would have had those kind of discussions have moved on from the Republican party. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/135 "2021-07-27T02:05:19Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > That would be Gov Brian Kemp of Georgia. > > Maybe you should read [a more reputable source](https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/may/24/georgia-abortion-bill-prison-fact-check/) than Alyssa Milano I read the same exact article you linked. That’s not my characterization, I was just answering who he was referring to with that line. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/136 "2021-07-27T02:08:12Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Maybe you should read [a more reputable source](https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/may/24/georgia-abortion-bill-prison-fact-check/) than Alyssa Milano Excuse me? She’s the boss! ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/137 "2021-07-27T05:13:05Z")
The new Texas law is coming close: it encourages private citizens to report women who may have had an abortion after 6 weeks. They must then prove in court that it was a miscarriage. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/138 "2021-07-27T06:16:04Z")
Close enough to make the claim that it is a caricature of conservatives a simple lie. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/139 "2021-07-27T11:03:27Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > There is no civil debate to be had here on the Georgia abortion law. You say this like it’s a bad thing. There _shouldn’t_ be civil debate about this, or _any_ anti-abortion law. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/140 "2021-07-27T11:37:54Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > There _shouldn’t_ be civil debate about this, or _any_ anti-abortion law. What _should_ there be civil debate about? On what issue that you feel strongly about would you be willing to have a respectful debate with someone you disagree with? Because **Dibble** , I have to say, I’ve never seen you give an inch on _anything_. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/141 "2021-07-27T11:56:02Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > What _should_ there be civil debate about? Lots of things that aren’t so obviously B&W as bodily autonomy vs patriarchal control of women. > [@Alessan](#): > > On what issue that you feel strongly about would you be willing to have a respectful debate with someone you disagree with? I’ve had perfectly fine debates with people I disagree with on issues relating to economics and religion, both topics I have strong feelings on. That’s skipping right by my participation in CS and GQ. But I don’t see the need for the fiction that I give bigotry any respect. > [@Alessan](#): > > Because **Dibble** , I have to say, I’ve never seen you give an inch on _anything_ . You’ve forgotten how I’ve come around on Israel _not_ being an apartheid state, then? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060.md?page=8)