# Is this the beginning of the end? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 22, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060 "2021-07-22T15:36:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/162 "2021-07-27T23:52:10Z")
‘There’s something wrong with you that needs to be fixed’ isn’t a summary of my post, it’s the next step that plenty of people take. As I am sure you are aware that is the rationale behind conversion therapy. I don’t think I’ve opined about conversion therapy but I don’t reason that it is wrong from first principles, only based on evidence that it does more harm than good. Normally I _am_ of the opinion that a disease or disorder should be treated directly, and not the symptoms. I am still not entirely comfortable saying same-sex marriage should be _encouraged_ in an ideal society. IMO Ideally either homosexuality/transgenderism wouldn’t exist… or it would exist, but nobody would care about the distinction between that and ‘normal’. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/163 "2021-07-28T04:15:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Has that actually happened to you? I work in a very progressive/left-leaning industry, so it’s happened to me more than once. > [@DocCathode](#): > > Listing your pronouns is no big hassle and can be very helpful to those whose pronouns are not standard or not obvious. It’s not a hassle, it’s just pandering and shouldn’t be encouraged IMO. If you’ve got non-standard pronouns that’s a you problem and not something you should expect society at large to proactively cater to. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/165 "2021-07-28T06:21:02Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > If you’ve got non-standard pronouns that’s a you problem and not something you should expect society at large to proactively cater to. Why not at least give society the option of not being assholes? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/166 "2021-07-28T06:41:51Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Why not at least give society the option of not being assholes? From my perspective, people deciding to change fairly fundamental operational-level societal operating stuff without asking me first, and getting shitty when I say “No thanks, I’m happy with how things are now” are the assholes. If you want to be weird/strange/loudly different, go right ahead - I’m OK with you doing that. Just don’t expect me to encourage or actively support it, and don’t get shitty at me for taking that stance. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/167 "2021-07-28T06:52:04Z")
Lol, ‘without asking you first’? Is this high school? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/168 "2021-07-28T07:02:27Z")
Do you like it when huge, sweeping changes that directly affect you get made at your work without any consultation whatsoever? No? Didn’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/169 "2021-07-28T07:39:12Z")
1. There is no need to answer for me. This is the Dope, not Facebook, and please don’t forget that. I am quite capable of writing my own words. 2. I’m not in charge of ‘manners’, and I have no problems if something ‘mannered’ in one era becomes unmannered in another… and vice versa. Remember that period in the 1990s when it was somehow decided that “black people” was passe and “African-American” was the new phrase… and how stupid white people got, labeling a mere shift in group nomenclature ‘political correctness’ as opposed to what it really was, a shift in what was considered the polite ‘group name’ used within civil society? We are seeing the same bullshit again, Martini, the same divisive ‘I Don’t Wanna!’ cry of American Right, the provence of the aged and rigid in body, spirit, and mind. This fight against ‘wokeness’ is the same tired bullshit the American power structure throws at marginalized voices every 30 years, knowing that the same fools will fall for it. And here _you_ are, gleefully jumping into this debate via performative whining about pronouns. Just stop it. You don’t control the world. I’m pretty sure you don’t even control work. So just be a man and adapt to the new manners. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/170 "2021-07-28T07:43:57Z")
No thanks. Also: I’m not American. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/171 "2021-07-28T07:44:46Z")
Well. When asked to be a man, you said no. At least that’s honest, wannabe adult. And, yeah, apologies for the America label. I sometimes forget performative whining about marginalized voices isn’t merely an American thing. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/172 "2021-07-28T07:45:18Z")
You’re not the arbiter of what is and isn’t a man and we’re both better than petty name-calling. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/173 "2021-07-28T07:47:45Z")
I’m not. Your position is whiny and based upon a level of self-importance neither of us possess. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/174 "2021-07-28T07:52:21Z")
I’m starting to remember why I stopped posting here for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/175 "2021-07-28T08:20:29Z")
Don’t let the door… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/176 "2021-07-28T08:49:16Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > fairly fundamental operational-level societal operating stuff Naah, mate, they’re just words. If they were code, they’d be comments, not functions. Social grease, not social machinery. But the machinery runs _better_ when you use _better_ lubricants. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/177 "2021-07-28T09:01:21Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Don’t let the door… Is this _really_ the attitude you want to take, given all the hand-wringing of late about the board dying out due to decreasing membership numbers etc? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/178 "2021-07-28T12:40:10Z")
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here and explain why the customs are changing so that more and more people show their pronouns. If you were a transsexual or someone who otherwise had a difficult-to-determine gender, you would post your pronouns to avoid confusion. However, if only those people posted pronouns, then it’s singling them out as weird or other. So, in support of people who have changed their public gender or otherwise prefer to make it clear, more and more people are normalizing the practice. If everyone does this, it’s no longer weird or odd to post your pronouns, and it helps support people for whom posting them is more necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/179 "2021-07-28T12:44:46Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > However, if only those people posted pronouns, then it’s singling them out as weird or other. They are “weird” or “other”, though. They’re a tiny, _tiny_ minority of the overall population. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/180 "2021-07-28T12:47:31Z")
OK, benefit of the doubt is rescinded. If you think singling out trans people as weird or other will help create a healthy, productive work environment, well, we don’t have anything to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/181 "2021-07-28T12:52:32Z")
I signed up many years ago and once in a while I still visit just to see what’s happening. There’s just not that much here for me anymore. And, despite the moderation, it’s much the same as it ever was. Republicans and Democrats yelling at each other, well, that’s always been here in all its petty glory. Just in this thread you have people calling others racists and so on. Problem people have always been around from the inception, some more colourful than others. Despite its pseudo-intellectual tone, this message board is inhabited by the same idiots that cluster around any other message board, spouting their misguided opinions and throwing their perceived weight around. I would feel uncomfortable about asking any question where I may actually want legitimate advice. Talking about recent films and books - that’s different, that doesn’t matter. So if I get bored with other parts of the internet, I may visit here briefly to see if anyone has said anything about the latest Marvel movie, for instance. If this place dies, it’s because it can’t offer anything that other areas of the internet can’t satisfy. At the moment it’s still active through some miracle. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/182 "2021-07-28T12:59:34Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > If you think singling out trans people as weird or other will help create a healthy, productive work environment, well, we don’t have anything to discuss. If your name matches your gender (even if you’ve changed genders; there’s nothing wrong with being transgender in and of itself), there’s no issue. If (generic) you transitioned to being a woman and decided you’re still going to be called “Dave” then the onus is on you to get used to people initially calling you “He” or list your pronouns and accept that identifies you as transgender. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060.md?page=10)