# Is this the nastiest, meanest Presidential campaign of modern times? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 19, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605 "2008-10-19T03:03:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/81 "2008-10-21T19:30:31Z")
[This](http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/stupidity_will_suffice/) sums it up pretty well for me: > [@](#): > > The reason that the McCain campaign seems so sleazy is that every time they’re about to embark on another attack on Obama, they launch a media pondering tour about whether or not they should do it. Because every anti-Obama smear they toss out lingers for days and days at a time, their crazy base picks each of them up and runs with them (or has already been running with them and therefore feels emboldened to continue). > > It’s not so much that McCain’s campaign has been purposefully sleazy as they’ve been meanderingly, pointlessly sleazy. It’s the “fuck it, whatever” guide to Republican politics, with no particular focus except putting anything out there to win a daily news cycle. Obama was a conspirator in voter fraud for a weekend, a terrorist for about three days, until he was a socialist because some plumber in Ohio said so. Before that he was a celebrity and presumptuous, a race-baiter, a shady community organizer, sexist, inexperienced, a baby killer, a sex predator and a dozen other things. You wonder why McCain/Palin supporters feel like they can go to rallies and talk about Obama being a Jew-bought Islamic radical cokehead forced abortionist communist? Because it’s the standard that the campaign’s set by having ridiculously drawn out public conversations designed to draw full attention to the charges while laboring under the pretense that they’re “debating” over using the smear. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/82 "2008-10-22T00:55:20Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Um, details? For some of the races I mentioned: 1928: In the South (back when this was the Democratic bedrock), much of the Hoover campaign was conducted by Democratic politicians (including several members of the Senate) running explicitly against Al Smith’s Catholicism. It’s safe to say, so far, that no Democratic Senators from heavily Democratic states have been campaigning against Obama on…I need not say more. 1936: A large amount of the Republican campaign (especially as conducted for the ticket as a whole by the likes of the _Chicago Tribune_) takes a tone of “Vote Landon, you may never have a second chance”. There is a certain amount of paranoia in elections, as conducted in the 1930s and early 1940s, that involves this sort of paranoia. 1968: I’m not sure how well I can describe what made the Wallace Presidential campaign of 1968 as sleazy as it was, but there has been writing describing it. (If you can find a copy of _An American Melodrama_, that would be quite helpful.) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/83 "2008-10-22T01:17:51Z")
And let’s not forget McCain’s connections to Charles Keating and G. Gordon Liddy. It’s not like he doesn’t have some skeletons in his closet himself-and his connections are much closer than Obama’s. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/84 "2008-10-22T03:22:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Attribution bias is a dangerous thing. It leads you to all kinds of mistakes. > > If Jeremiah Wright or Bill Ayers were on the right, they would considered some of the batshit crazies. But they’re not, so they are discounted. > > Regards, > Shodan Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers do not have top rated radio shows or best selling books. No one would have heard of them if the right didn’t make an issue out of them. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/85 "2008-10-22T03:26:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > About Wright, you are sort of close - the person who Obama referred to as his mentor, and to whom he dedicated a book, was a minor public figure. It was not until Obama ran for President that Wright’s influence on his protege became a matter of public interest. > > And you are free to refer to someone as prominent in the Weather Underground as Ayers, with its bombings and other acts of terror, as a “minor” figure. You’d be rather flagrantly wrong, but you can do it. And, of course, Obama had no significant connection with Ayers at all. Apart from launching his political campaign from [Ayers’ living room](http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/902213,CST-NWS-ayers18.article), that is. And working together. > > Apart from that, they were practically strangers. > > Regards, > Shodan That is terrible and yet you persist. When Obama went to Chicago Ayers was a highly respected college professor. He wrote and edited books on educational theory and practice. He ran Dalys program to redo the public educational system . He was part of the Woods foundation that worked on poverty issues in Chicago. If you went there to organize ,he is who you would want to talk to. He was doing good work and was deeply involved in the issues that Obama was dealing with. You never quit drinking the kool aid. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/86 "2008-10-22T03:40:14Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > > [@Governor Quinn](#): > > > > I would like to nominate 1928 as being a rather horrendous campaign in certain parts of the United States, 1936 was fairly ugly and, in some ways, symbolizes a streak in politics of the late 1930s/early 1940s that’s rather familiar to politics now, 1964 opened a door that can’t be sealed back up, and certain campaigns either by specific candidates (Wallace 1968) or against them (the anti-Socialist campaigns of 1920) are fairly rank. > > Um, details? What, you haven’t read the books already? I haven’t either, but I do know that if you were a halfway respectable Midwest Protestant in 1928, you were against Smith and for Prohibition for the simple reason that Smith was Catholic and against it, and if you weren’t, you kept your trap shut. Similarly in 1936, it was supposed to be the “real Americans” for Alf Landon vs. the egghead/urbanite/unionist lefty coalition for FDR. The first important (though wrong) poll was in '36, and predicted Landon. The reason? It used car registrations and phone books. If you had _either_ a car _or_ a phone in 1936–never mind both!–you were likely _not_ for FDR. And he won anyway. _That’s_ how bad things were. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/87 "2008-10-22T13:39:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > About Wright, you are sort of close - the person who Obama referred to as his mentor, and to whom he dedicated a book, was a minor public figure. It was not until Obama ran for President that Wright’s influence on his protege became a matter of public interest. Sort of close? Seriously. No one had ever heard of the man, save people involved in the same religious community. > [@](#): > > And you are free to refer to someone as prominent in the Weather Underground as Ayers, with its bombings and other acts of terror, as a “minor” figure. You’d be rather flagrantly wrong, but you can do it. You assert that Ayers is a major public figure. I disagree. Scintillating. For once, I feel my opinion is comfortable in the majority. > [@](#): > > And, of course, Obama had no significant connection with Ayers at all. Apart from launching his political campaign from [Ayers’ living room](http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/902213,CST-NWS-ayers18.article), that is. And working together. Yawn. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/88 "2008-10-22T13:50:03Z")
[QUOTE=Maeglin] You assert that Ayers is a major public figure. I disagree. [/quote] Actually, he was characterized as > [@](#): > > a highly respected college professor. He wrote and edited books on educational theory and practice. He ran Dalys program to redo the public educational system . He was part of the Woods foundation that worked on poverty issues in Chicago. > If you went there to organize ,he is who you would want to talk to. He was doing good work and was deeply involved in the issues that Obama was dealing with. > [@](#): > > Yawn. As ever, IOKIADDI. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/89 "2008-10-22T15:09:59Z")
Truth bores you. Well you are not bored very often then? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/90 "2008-10-22T15:15:16Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Truth bores you. Well you are not bored very often then? Not when reading your posts. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/91 "2008-10-22T15:40:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually, he was characterized as > As ever, IOKIADDI. > > Regards, > Shodan He was a big figure _on the Chicago education scene_. Most people had never even heard of that, much less belonged to it. Before this year, I’d never heard of Bill Ayers, but I damn well knew exactly who Gordon Liddy was. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/92 "2008-10-22T19:13:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not when reading your posts. > > Regards, > Shodan Are you a blond? Do you work on the View? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/93 "2008-10-22T19:18:34Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > He was a big figure _on the Chicago education scene_. Most people had never even heard of that, much less belonged to it. Before this year, I’d never heard of Bill Ayers, but I damn well knew exactly who Gordon Liddy was. Who did Gordon Liddy bomb? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/94 "2008-10-22T20:11:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually, he was characterized as > As ever, IOKIADDI. > > Regards, > Shodan This could be a description of several academics I have worked with over the years. Similar story, different city. They are not major public figures. Perhaps the most prominent public intellectual in my department in grad school was the author of several influential books, was an advisor to presidents, and was the research director of the RNC. He draws more water than Ayers, and he is not a major public figure. Get real. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/95 "2008-10-22T20:56:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Who did Gordon Liddy bomb? > > Regards, > Shodan What does that have to do with how well known he is? Regards, Captain Carrot ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/96 "2008-10-22T21:05:48Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > What does that have to do with how well known he is? > > Regards, > Captain Carrot True. One could also counter, “which courtrooms did Bill Ayers discharge firearms in?” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/97 "2008-10-22T21:43:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Who did Gordon Liddy bomb? > > Regards, > Shodan What was Ayres convicted of? Cheers, EP ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/98 "2008-10-22T21:50:13Z")
I’m a little late getting ito the party, but just to go back to “Is this the nastiest, meanest Presidential campaign of modern times?” – my answer is “not even close.” 1960 - the Papist John F. Kennedy was going to take orders from the Roman Catholic Church. 1972 - even leaving Watergate out completely, George McGovern was the candidate of “acid, amnesty and abortion” (a slogan hung on him by fellow Democrats.) 1988 - IMHO the Willie Horton ad was sleazier and more race-baiting than anything I’ve seen this year. 1992 - Bill Clinton, adulterer, draft dodger, went to Moscow, wife made shady commodities deals. 2004 - swiftboating This doesn’t even rank in the top 5 in my own lifetime! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/99 "2008-10-22T21:55:21Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > 1972 - even leaving Watergate out completely, George McGovern was the candidate of “acid, amnesty and abortion” (a slogan hung on him by fellow Democrats.) A slogan hung on him by his own running mate, as it turned out. Not that McGovern knew. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605/100 "2008-10-23T00:35:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > A slogan hung on him by his own running mate, as it turned out. Not that McGovern knew. I’m pretty sure you’re right, but I couldn’t dig up a quick cite for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-nastiest-meanest-presidential-campaign-of-modern-times/468605.md?page=6)