# Is this the start of The Great Republican Schism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 6, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089 "2016-05-06T18:48:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/21 "2016-05-09T17:07:41Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > It’s their \*\*\*discontent \*\*\*that is key. Do Trump voters have reasonable expectations? Boehner saw the writing on the wall and decided they did not. There are simply not enough conservative hardliners to win AND not concede on something. The GOP dug their own grave when they decided conceding on anything was treasonous. When they don’t get what they want the public that believed they could do it felt betrayed and so a new leader without Washington connections seems like the only answer. And he won’t get it either, even if he is elected. The gerrymandering, voter ID laws and jingosim won’t make a damn bit of difference. > > It’s all our country so it sucks for everyone, but I just feel sorry for them. I highlighted ‘discontent’ because I read it as ‘disconnect’ at first, and it still works. The party establishment had been playing this game for a long time, and not even noticing that their voters didn’t believe in it anymore. Both parties have been using the same strategy, “You have to vote for us because you hate them”. This time the “us” on each side was divided. Both Bernie and Donald gave voters an actual choice within their own parties and they responded. Reasonable expectations are the trap here, of course the most reasonable expectations will be the lowest. > [@George Bernard Shaw](#): > > The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/22 "2016-05-09T17:59:32Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > There is good that comes out of this very situation. > At least you can say: “ **We Did This To Ourselves**. No-one else is to blame: the whole thing is the Will of the People. And we will own it.” > > No foreign master forced this on you: no USSR imposed Trump as American Soviet Vassal; no nazis urged Hillary as American Reichsgauleiter. Gaddafi’s Ghost has not taken his revenge. You are free and you can abide by your mistakes, with or without a President Trump or Clinton. This would require self-awareness. Something the Republican party has failed to demonstrate in many years. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/23 "2016-05-09T18:16:33Z")
[Palin is now actively fighting Ryan (on Trump’s behalf)](http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/08/politics/sarah-palin-paul-ryan-paul-nehlen-endorsement/) She is going on and on about “the will of the people”. Right. 40% of the people, that is. Of course that’s math, and math is hard. And also math on a plane might be the work of terrists, right? Let the Great Schism begin! Choose sides! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/24 "2016-05-09T18:26:33Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I have to agree. Here’s a thought experiment: Imagine 4 parties, each with a full slate of candidates for senate, house and presidency. One is headed by Cruz. One is headed by Kasich. There is not enough daylight between the two. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/25 "2016-05-09T18:45:53Z")
[Did Ryan just call Trump’s bluff?](http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/may/09/us-election-live-trump-palin-rya) Or is Ryan just happy to get the hell away from the Trump Republican Party before it burns to the ground with no survivors? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/26 "2016-05-09T20:30:22Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Let the Great Schism begin! Choose sides! And we know that both sides will be well-armed ! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/27 "2016-05-09T20:53:37Z")
Why am I thinking of **The Band** ’s _Evangeline_? A young woman is watching the riverboat (US, 19th Century, Steam boilers, Paddle Wheel(s)) as it is bringing her love home. It explodes as she is watching.\* Cleveland is going to be interesting… - - a clever person could re-write the lyrics to that one. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/28 "2016-05-09T20:55:05Z")
what I don’t get is why the hell is palin even thought about by anyone… she lost… n the old days you’d never hear from the losers they’d just fade in the background maybe on a slow news day a reporter would ask them what they thought of the current situation… ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/29 "2016-05-09T21:07:30Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > [Palin is now actively fighting Ryan (on Trump’s behalf)](http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/08/politics/sarah-palin-paul-ryan-paul-nehlen-endorsement/) > > She is going on and on about “the will of the people”. Right. 40% of the people, that is. Of course that’s math, and math is hard. And also math on a plane might be the work of terrists, right? > > Let the Great Schism begin! Choose sides! She was elected governor of Alaska and defied the will of the people by quitting, so I guess she’s quite the expert and can identify such when she sees it. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/30 "2016-05-09T21:14:20Z")
The question that ultimately has to be addressed is: where will Moderate Republicans go? Democrats? Never Libertarian? They have done nothing to court the schimatics Form a third party? In the US? Yeah right. Where is the Bull-Moose Party today? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/31 "2016-05-09T21:36:58Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The question that ultimately has to be addressed is: where will Moderate Republicans go? > Democrats? Never > Libertarian? They have done nothing to court the schimatics > Form a third party? In the US? Yeah right. Where is the Bull-Moose Party today? As a boy in Wisconsin, in the 1970s, I met a man running for State Senate, on the Bull Moose ticket. Don’t remember anything beyond that. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/32 "2016-05-09T21:38:12Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The schism is between the voters and the party. The GOP has been a coalition party for a long time, but mainly paying lip service to every group except the Conservatives. The Conservatives have been running a protection racket, any Republicans who wander off the reservation into Liberal concepts like increasing minimum wage would be rapidly attacked in the media and money would be directed to primary opponents. The message was loud and clear to the politicians and party hierarchy. The voters who supported them received nothing in return. Donald Trump has won the Republican Nomination for president this year while ignoring the Conservative Attacks. The Stop Trump movement was spearheaded by Conservative media, and largely ignored by the voters. Trump has taken at least 2 opposing viewpoints on every issue, one of them usually considered Liberal by the Conservatives, and they have attacked him for it, and he has ignored them and won anyway. It is that group which is now distancing themselves from the Republican Party. They don’t want to play the game if they don’t get their way, and Trump has just cut the heart out of the threat they’ve maintained to keep getting their way. > > What happens next depends on the House and Senate elections. If the Republicans lose significantly there then it will be easy to blame Trump and get right back in bed with the Conservative faction. If the Republicans hold on in congress, and definitely if Trump wins, they will not regain the power within the Republican party they have enjoyed in the past 35 years for a very long time, if ever. The utter, **utter** failure of Jeb, despite infinite sums granted him, should be brought up here. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/33 "2016-05-09T21:40:32Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > it is no a “great GOP schism.” more than Goldwater’s loss leading to Nixon’s decisive electoral college victory 4 years later. Its that way in part because of the way money and politics work in this country. A Corporate GOP and a Populist GOP could not survive on their own. Goldwater was a takeover, and while he was extreme he was within the system. I believe Eisenhower endorsed him, if reluctantly, and the Convention ran smoothly. I was around back then, and it is nothing like this. Both ex-presidents refusing an endorsement is unprecedented, the last two candidates skipping the convention is unprecedented. Lots of other Republicans are deciding they need to wash their hair that week also. The real question is what the Trump masses will do after he gets clobbered. Swear off the party which stabbed him in the back? Come back as if nothing ever happened? This isn’t a split of Republican officeholders, it is a split between them and a lot of their base. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/34 "2016-05-09T21:41:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I have to agree. Here’s a thought experiment: Imagine 4 parties, each with a full slate of candidates for senate, house and presidency. One is headed by Cruz. One is headed by Kasich. The third by Clinton and the fourth by Sanders. Imagine what the country would be like… I know. Italy. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/35 "2016-05-09T22:28:22Z")
**PJ O’Rourke** is endorsing Clinton. With great reluctance: [Conservative Author P.J. O'Rourke Reluctantly Backs Clinton : NPR](http://www.npr.org/2016/05/09/477339063/conservative-author-pj-orourke-reluctantly-backs-clinton) "_“I am endorsing Hillary, and all her lies and all her empty promises,” O’Rourke continued. “It’s the second-worst thing that can happen to this country, but she’s way behind in second place. She’s wrong about absolutely everything, but she’s wrong within normal parameters.”_ ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/36 "2016-05-09T22:32:18Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > The utter, **utter** failure of Jeb, despite infinite sums granted him, should be brought up here. As near as I can tell, every Republican saw Marco Rubio as the biggest potential threat. While obviously Democrats will assume he was a mad right-winger, he was conservative enough to appeal to the base, but not locked into it and could also appeal to centrists. He was also young, energetic, charismatic, and had a good team. So, realizing that this was a man who could reasonably carry the party to the White House, they utterly destroyed him in public. Jeb Bush soaked up all the establishment donors, who for reasons I can’t quite fathom gave him a hundred million dollars. Jeb then pent that accomplishing nothing whatsoever, but made sure to slam Rubio as hard as possible. This itself is telling, as Rubio knew he didn’t have the direct connections, name recognition, or money; he had to really build up support from the grassroots. Then of course, Christie happened and Trump happened and Kasich happened. I’m not sure what Kasich is thinking. He has the personality of soggy cereal, and apparently the same level of self-awareness. One supposes he’s still a sensible centrist, but he seems to have no idea what he’s doing and all he managed to do was push Trumpy to center stage, and the odds that Trump would bring Kasich on board are trivial. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/37 "2016-05-10T02:18:25Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > what I don’t get is why the hell is palin even thought about by anyone… she lost… > > n the old days you’d never hear from the losers they’d just fade in the background maybe on a slow news day a reporter would ask them what they thought of the current situation… _Caveat Elector:_ Remember Nixon. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/38 "2016-05-10T14:32:38Z")
My opinion is that AFTER the Republican convention, if Trump comes through as the nominee, that Ryan and Graham and almost every other Republican currently holding a Federal office, will line up to kiss publicly Trump’s ass with an endorsement. I further predict that this will so disgust the Republican voters that they will stay home in droves on election day, and the Democrats will get control of both the House and Senate, and the Presidency of course. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/39 "2016-05-10T15:43:49Z")
> [@George Bernard Shaw](#): > > The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. Well, it helps if the unreasonable man isn’t also an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/40 "2016-05-10T15:47:52Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, it helps if the unreasonable man isn’t also an idiot. Even when he isn’t he will be called one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089.md?page=3)