# Is this the start of The Great Republican Schism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 6, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089 "2016-05-06T18:48:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/81 "2016-05-12T17:25:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And being right on the issues (at least, IMO) more often than his opponents. You’re missing the point of Obama describing himself as a Rorschach test. To a large extent, Obama was “right on the issues” in the same sense that there is “really” a butterfly in the ink blot. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/82 "2016-05-12T17:30:33Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > WHAT skills? > > As I said, Obama and Rubio were BOTH freshman Senators with zero accomplishments. Like RUbio, Obama couldn’t run on his record of achievement because he didn’t HAVE any achievements. > > What he DID have was one well-received speech. A speech that set Democrat hearts a fluttering and Chris Matthews’ leg a twitching. Liberals loved Obama and made him President even though he had absolutely no qualifications for the job. > > . Natural born citizen, 35 years old. That’s the qualifications. Even Trump is qualified. (Cruz may not be, but who cares?) _He worked as a civil rights attorney and taught constitutional law at University of Chicago Law School between 1992 and 2004. He served three terms representing the 13th District in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2004._ Not to mention his one term in the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/83 "2016-05-12T17:30:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You’re missing the point of Obama describing himself as a Rorschach test. To a large extent, Obama was “right on the issues” in the same sense that there is “really” a butterfly in the ink blot. > > Regards, > Shodan That might be true for some voters, but for others (including myself), we picked Obama because he was right on the issues. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/84 "2016-05-12T17:37:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You’re missing the point of Obama describing himself as a Rorschach test. To a large extent, Obama was “right on the issues” in the same sense that there is “really” a butterfly in the ink blot. > > Regards, > Shodan I don’t understand your point. I wanted the things that Obama said he would try to do and didn’t want the things McCain said he would try to do. That’s “right on the issues,” or, in other words, he laid out positions consistent with what I wanted. I will concede he didn’t have extensive political experience. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/85 "2016-05-12T17:44:00Z")
Dems were going to win in '08 even if they ran a chimpanzee. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/86 "2016-05-12T18:49:07Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > It wasn’t just Donald Buzzsaw Trump who beat Marco. Most nights, he was lucky if he came in third. He never stood out in anyway. He was just Republican Suit #8 spouting Republican Talking Point of the Day. He didn’t intimidate or pull focus in anyway. He didn’t have anything new or interesting to say - unlike our current president. Let’s dispel with the notion that Rubio didn’t know what he was doing. He knew exactly what he was doing. 😃 However the voters didn’t care for what he offered. Rubio tried to run as the establishment candidate, same as Jeb, same as Christie, but without their baggage. Nobody could have seen Trump’s ascendancy and the anti-establishment vibe during these primaries. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/87 "2016-05-12T19:29:30Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t understand your point. I wanted the things that Obama said he would try to do and didn’t want the things McCain said he would try to do. Obama said that a lot of his supporters projected their assumptions onto him, and that he wanted what they wanted, and that this was one of his strengths. And your reference to McCain somewhat misses the point. Being an ink blot is also how he beat Hillary - in part because it was easier to believe that Obama agreed with the voter than that Hillary agreed with the voter. Because Hillary had more experience than Obama, as well as actual involvement with policy and positions. As I said, Obama was able to turn his lack of experience to his own advantage. Because there were enough voters who didn’t wait for him to explain his positions - they just assumed “hope and change” means whatever they wanted it to mean. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/88 "2016-05-12T19:33:35Z")
I think the schism is overblown. After all, [Dan Quayle endorsed Trump today](http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2016/05/12/quayle-crows-over-trump/). The man was _VP_, show some respect! ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/89 "2016-05-12T23:44:48Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > True. I once saw it explained thusly: > > When Obama was elected, a certain segment of the Republicans went bat-shit crazy. Their hyperbole about Obama was off the charts. Birtherism. Predictions of dire economic consequences. Cats sleeping with dogs. > > Obama was not simply wrong-headed. Obama did not simply have bad policies. > > Obama was EVIL PERSONIFIED. He was literally… The Antichrist. > > And what do you do with that? Do you compromise? Do you sit down with the Antichrist to see if you can hammer out a deal. No you do not. You cannot compromise with pure evil. > > This is where we’ve come to. The final, ultimate partisanship, where the other side is evil and can NEVER be worked with. The Republicans have been walking down this road long before Obama; this started when Ronald Reagan hitched his wagon to the Moral Majority in the 1980s. When they got in bed with the evangelical right, they began to kill that beautiful old idea we inherited from the British: Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. That is, the idea that your opponents on the opposite side of the aisle are a parcel of fat-headed, empty-minded nincompoops and corrupt rouges…who love their country and are trying to do what’s best for it, even if they are _tragically and utterly misguided halfwits_. But that’s not how Jerry Falwell and Franklin Graham, Focus On The Family and the Southern Baptist Convention think. They think in terms of good and evil, and with evil, _pace_ **Euphonious Polemic** , there can be no accommodation. Just look at how the religious right has demonized the word _liberal_; according to them, liberals are anti-God and anti-American. No compromise with the Devil! The end result of this thinking is a Dominionist like Ted Cruz or John Ashcroft. (Well, actually, the end result is John Calvin and Reformation Geneva; but fortunately, the evangelicals are still a minority in this country.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/90 "2016-05-13T03:03:15Z")
[quote=“Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle, post:89, topic:754089”] The Republicans have been walking down this road long before Obama; this started when Ronald Reagan hitched his wagon to the Moral Majority in the 1980s. When they got in bed with the evangelical right, they began to kill that beautiful old idea we inherited from the British: Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. That is, the idea that your opponents on the opposite side of the aisle are a parcel of fat-headed, empty-minded nincompoops and corrupt rouges…who love their country and are trying to do what’s best for it, even if they are _tragically and utterly misguided halfwits_. [/QUOTE] Good points, and like I posted before: PJ O’Rourke ""_I am endorsing Hillary, and all her lies and all her empty promises," O’Rourke continued. “It’s the second-worst thing that can happen to this country, but she’s way behind in second place. She’s wrong about absolutely everything, but she’s wrong within normal parameters.”_ ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/91 "2016-05-13T15:47:59Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I think the schism is overblown. After all, [Dan Quayle endorsed Trump today](http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2016/05/12/quayle-crows-over-trump/). > > The man was _VP_, show some respect! Hypothetically, would adding Quayle to a Trump/Quayle ticket increase or decrease their total IQ? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/92 "2016-05-14T04:16:12Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > what I don’t get is why the hell is palin even thought about by anyone… she lost… > > n the old days you’d never hear from the losers they’d just fade in the background maybe on a slow news day a reporter would ask them what they thought of the current situation… “Losers” like Nixon have come back and won the Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/93 "2016-05-14T05:31:50Z")
I voted for Obama, and I recognize that **astorian** has a point. Obama wasn’t really ready to be President, but he appeared to be against W Bush’s Iraq War, he wasn’t a Clinton, and he was running in a year the GOP couldn’t win. I suspect many in the GOP didn’t even want to win that year Obama is pretty well-liked as President, well enough to be re-elected. Of course, Romney couldn’t win in 2012 because a lot of evangelicals consider LDS to be “cultists.” Rubio is not as personally charismatic as Obama. Someone with only Rubio’s public speaking skill might not have pulled off a presidential nomination on the Democratic side. And Rubio probably suffers from having spent his entire Senate career in the TEA Party era, as part of a screwy do-nothing coalition. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/94 "2016-05-14T05:37:11Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You’re missing the point of Obama describing himself as a Rorschach test. To a large extent, Obama was “right on the issues” in the same sense that there is “really” a butterfly in the ink blot. This is somewhat true. Not that Obama doesn’t have real positions, and even some respectable ones. But a lot people are disturbingly willing to assume of him that he is probably both smarter than them and vaguely on their side. Kind of like how people see Jesus of Nazareth. Now, that’s not a unique Obama phenomenon. But it is definitely disturbingly common among Obama fans, and his personal charisma encourages it somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/95 "2016-05-14T05:49:06Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > This is somewhat true. Not that Obama doesn’t have real positions, and even some respectable ones. But a lot people are disturbingly willing to assume of him that he is probably both smarter than them and vaguely on their side. Kind of like how people see Jesus of Nazareth. > > Now, that’s not a unique Obama phenomenon. But it is definitely disturbingly common among Obama fans, and his personal charisma encourages it somehow. That’s the point everyone seems to be missing in comparing Rubio to Obama. Yes, Obama didn’t have a lot of experience when he first ran for President. But he _did_, and still does, have a ton of charisma. He could get people fired up. Marco Rubio just seemed like a blank sheet of paper. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/96 "2016-05-14T12:53:11Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > But a lot people are disturbingly willing to assume of him that he is probably both smarter than them … I’m willing to assume that someone who was the lead editor of the _Harvard Law Review_ is smarter than me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/97 "2016-05-14T16:20:30Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I’m willing to assume that someone who was the lead editor of the _Harvard Law Review_ is smarter than me. 🙂 Cool- you know who ELSE was editor of the Harvard Law Review? Ted Cruz! So, you gladly admit he’s waaaaay smarter than you. Right? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/98 "2016-05-14T16:37:28Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Cool- you know who ELSE was editor of the Harvard Law Review? Ted Cruz! > > So, you gladly admit he’s waaaaay smarter than you. Right? [Well, he’s not dumb, but . . .](http://www.alternet.org/comments/news-amp-politics/ted-cruz-isnt-idiot-hes-delusional-and-thats-far-more-dangerous) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/99 "2016-05-14T16:37:52Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Cool- you know who ELSE was editor of the Harvard Law Review? Ted Cruz! > > So, you gladly admit he’s waaaaay smarter than you. Right? Yes, he is smarter. And he uses his smarts for evil. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089/100 "2016-05-14T19:02:47Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Cool- you know who ELSE was editor of the Harvard Law Review? Ted Cruz! > > So, you gladly admit he’s waaaaay smarter than you. Right? Sure! And then he went on to clerk for the Chief Justice of the United States. He’s clearly got a lot on the ball in the brains department. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-start-of-the-great-republican-schism/754089.md?page=6)