# Is this type of search warrant too broad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 19, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-type-of-search-warrant-too-broad/769062 "2016-10-19T20:06:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-type-of-search-warrant-too-broad/769062/1 "2016-10-19T20:06:13Z")
[According to this Forbes article,](http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2016/10/16/doj-demands-mass-fingerprint-seizure-to-open-iphones/#6d350ef88d9d) Feds entered a property with > [@](#): > > "“authorization to depress the fingerprints and thumbprints of every person who is located at the SUBJECT PREMISES during the execution of the search and who is reasonably believed by law enforcement to be the user of a fingerprint sensor-enabled device that is located at the SUBJECT PREMISES and falls within the scope of the warrant.” In other words, without naming a specific person or a specific piece of information being sought after, they were authorized to force anyone and/or everyone that happened to be on that property at that time to unlock their cellphones and hand them over. If this is legal, it is legally obscene in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-type-of-search-warrant-too-broad/769062/2 "2016-10-19T20:23:34Z")
Yes, it is way too broad. It’s also disgusting that a judge would issue it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-type-of-search-warrant-too-broad/769062/3 "2016-10-19T20:48:10Z")
I think that very last clause - “and falls within the scope of the warrant.” serves as a limiter - do you have the ‘scope of the warrant’ handy? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-type-of-search-warrant-too-broad/769062/4 "2016-10-20T15:41:32Z")
I think a lot of search warrants are too broad. Protip: if you’re trying to keep your illegal electronic bits hidden from the prying eyes of the police, don’t use a fingerprint scanner as a convenient way to unlock your device. Also, maybe consider not using an iPhone, since the FBI can apparently crack them. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-type-of-search-warrant-too-broad/769062/5 "2016-10-20T16:12:57Z")
If the warrant doesn’t particularly describe the thing being searched for, it isn’t a valid warrant. What were they looking for? Was it some piece of information on the electronic devices, or who were the people in the house who had fingerprint access to the devices, or what? That is, were they trying to find out who had access, or were they looking for something and hoped to be able to compel anyone in the house to help them find it? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-type-of-search-warrant-too-broad/769062/6 "2016-10-21T16:39:20Z")
Somewhat related - when I used to write and execute search warrants for drugs there was standard language that said " and all persons present at the time of execution". This allowed us to search everyone in the house. Then, supposedly, a UPS (or similar) guy got caught up in the execution of a warrant somewhere. The cops searched him and found some weed or something but he was completely unrelated to the case. It was just a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. He moved to suppress the evidence and won. (Sorry, no cite for the case - I’d love to read it if it exists) The language in the warrant was then changed to " “All persons present reasonably believed to be involved in the crime of (fill in the blank)”. Even that seems kind of odd since probable cause is required to search, not a reasonable belief. I think the justices were trying to keep things practical while at the same time providing some protection to innocent bystanders. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-type-of-search-warrant-too-broad/769062/7 "2016-10-21T19:23:01Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Somewhat related - when I used to write and execute search warrants for drugs there was standard language that said " and all persons present at the time of execution". This allowed us to search everyone in the house. Then, supposedly, a UPS (or similar) guy got caught up in the execution of a warrant somewhere. The cops searched him and found some weed or something but he was completely unrelated to the case. It was just a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. He moved to suppress the evidence and won. (Sorry, no cite for the case - I’d love to read it if it exists) The language in the warrant was then changed to " “All persons present reasonably believed to be involved in the crime of (fill in the blank)”. Even that seems kind of odd since probable cause is required to search, not a reasonable belief. I think the justices were trying to keep things practical while at the same time providing some protection to innocent bystanders. Ybarra v. Illinois was the Supreme Court case that rejected the search of anyone present when a search warrant is executed. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-type-of-search-warrant-too-broad/769062/8 "2016-10-21T19:25:49Z")
I’m wondering, could a search warrant require someone on-site to open a combination safe, or to show the police which key opened a locked door? Those seem roughly equivalent to me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-type-of-search-warrant-too-broad/769062/9 "2016-10-21T21:41:20Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m wondering, could a search warrant require someone on-site to open a combination safe, or to show the police which key opened a locked door? Those seem roughly equivalent to me. In both those cases, the police are requiring the contents of someone’s mind. That’s “more testimonial” than the press of a finger. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-type-of-search-warrant-too-broad/769062/10 "2016-10-21T21:46:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In both those cases, the police are requiring the contents of someone’s mind. That’s “more testimonial” than the press of a finger. In that case, can a search warrant dictate a person to move their body in a certain manner-to perform certain physical actions? I know that it allows the _police_ to search, and it restricts outsiders from impeding such searches…but this requires a person to take a physical action beyond getting out of the way. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-type-of-search-warrant-too-broad/769062/11 "2016-10-22T04:38:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > In that case, can a search warrant dictate a person to move their body in a certain manner-to perform certain physical actions? A search warrant can authorize blood draws or cheek swabs. So I’d say the mere press of a finger is permissible. But that assumes the police are past Ybarra. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-type-of-search-warrant-too-broad/769062/12 "2016-10-22T11:41:42Z")
Thanks, Bricker. Now I’ll have to go see how close what I heard matches the actual facts.