# Is this use of 'penultimate' correct? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 3, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216 "2019-10-03T18:59:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/1 "2019-10-03T18:59:47Z")
I am an engineer, not a writer, and yet I find myself responsible for writing an SOP. I am not enjoying this. How can I succinctly state that something is important but it’s not the most important thing, that there is something else of higher importance? Here is my draft so far: “_These products are to be first and foremost, safe, accurate, and effective. It is of penultimate importance that they be developed as quickly as reasonably practicable._” So, speed is of secondary importance. But speed is still highly important. That’s what I’m trying to say. Is that the correct usage of penultimate? Thanks much, in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/2 "2019-10-03T19:08:22Z")
Penultimate means second to last, not secondary. Your sentence doesn’t mean that speed is of secondary importance, it means _there is only one thing less important than speed_. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/3 "2019-10-03T19:08:50Z")
I have never heard “penultimate” used in this way. It either means “second to last” or (in a growing misuse) an emphatic from of “ultimate”'s meaning “best/greatest.” Nobody reading that sentence will think it means “of secondary importance,” at least not IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/4 "2019-10-03T19:12:28Z")
Cool, thank you for that. I changed it to _These products are to be first and foremost, safe, accurate, and effective. Secondarily, they need to be developed as quickly as reasonably practicable._ To me that sounds awkward. (Maybe it’s time for this to be moved to IMHO. I’ll ping the mods.) ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/5 "2019-10-03T19:28:09Z")
If you wanted to accentuate the importance of the first three, you could try: while these products should be developed as quickly as reasonably practicable, they must be safe, accurate and effective. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/6 "2019-10-03T19:31:29Z")
_These products must be developed as quickly as reasonably possible without sacrificing the foremost goals of safety, accuracy and effectiveness._ Something like that, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/7 "2019-10-03T19:43:11Z")
I think a good rule of thumb is to NEVER use the word penultimate, because even people who know what it means won’t be sure that _you_ know what it means. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/8 "2019-10-03T19:53:53Z")
> [@](#): > > (Maybe it’s time for this to be moved to IMHO. I’ll ping the mods.) Done. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/9 "2019-10-03T19:58:48Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > I think a good rule of thumb is to NEVER use the word penultimate, because even people who know what it means won’t be sure that _you_ know what it means. Seconded. It is almost always used wrong. People seem to think it means “more than ultimate”, which makes me wonder if they know what the definition of “ultimate” is. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/10 "2019-10-03T20:06:54Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Seconded. It is almost always used wrong. People seem to think it means “more than ultimate”, which makes me wonder if they know what the definition of “ultimate” is. The definition of “ultimate” ain’t what it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/11 "2019-10-03T20:12:21Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > I am an engineer, not a writer, and yet I find myself responsible for writing an SOP. I am not enjoying this. > > How can I succinctly state that something is important but it’s not the most important thing, that there is something else of higher importance? Here is my draft so far: > > “_These products are to be first and foremost, safe, accurate, and effective. It is of penultimate importance that they be developed as quickly as reasonably practicable._” > > So, speed is of secondary importance. But speed is still highly important. That’s what I’m trying to say. > > Is that the correct usage of penultimate? Thanks much, in advance. Why not just say “… accurate, and effective. While still significant, it is of secondary importance…” ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/12 "2019-10-03T20:41:37Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > The definition of “ultimate” ain’t what it used to be. I think it’s still pretty iron clad. For example, you have the ultimate option. You might think I’m talking about one ultimate option but I’m talking about the other ultimate option. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/13 "2019-10-03T20:51:00Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > I think a good rule of thumb is to NEVER use the word penultimate, because even people who know what it means won’t be sure that _you_ know what it means. Hadn’t thunk that out, myself. A real light bulb moment. Probably a key reason why so few of my SDMB posts draw responses. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/14 "2019-10-03T20:56:41Z")
If someone tries to sell you the ultimate weapon MK1, you should be cautious. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/15 "2019-10-03T21:42:28Z")
Best use of “Penultimate,” IMHO: > [@](#): > > **Max Quordlepleen:** Believe me, ladies and gentlemen, there is nothing penultimate about this one. This one, ladies and gentlemen, is the proverbial “it”. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/16 "2019-10-03T22:46:52Z")
As I understand it penultimate doesn’t mean “second best” or even “second from the start”, it means “second from the _end_”. “The ultimate weapon” doesn’t actually mean the _best_ weapon, it means the _last_ weapon - the one that once you use it, there will be no more fighting at all. So when you reach the penultimate item on the list of things to deal with you’ve almost finished fixing everything and are pretty much scraping the bottom of the barrel. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/17 "2019-10-03T23:07:41Z")
It comes from the fact that the last syllable of a Latin word is the “ultima.” The second-to-last syllable is the “penultima.” That’s all there is to it. Penultimate is “second to last.” ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/18 "2019-10-03T23:39:55Z")
Then there is the antepenultimate word here. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/19 "2019-10-04T01:27:47Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Then there is the antepenultimate word here. That would be ‘here’ in your statement. And the antipenultimate word would be ‘there’, I think. But my geometry may be skewed. Wrapped-around. Sinking fast. Ouch. I think we’re torturing the language. Pass another firebrand. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216/20 "2019-10-04T01:44:53Z")
I had a much-admired music professor in college[sup]\*[/sup] who liked to put short examples on the blackboard for the class to examine in detail. He referred to the last measure as the ultimate, the second-to-last, the penultimate, and the third, the ante-penultimate. Being the class smartass, I couldn’t avoid asking what measure came next in the sequence. His answer, “The first”. - Manus Sasonkin [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-use-of-penultimate-correct/841216.md?page=2)