# Is this waitperson behavior presumptuous or helpful? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 11, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724 "2012-12-11T18:15:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/81 "2012-12-12T21:54:57Z")
#2 is just weird. I mean, it’s Red Lobster, despite the fact that you sell lobster, you’re not a fancy restaurant. The waiter fixing my paper napkin for me is “Would you like to smell the bottle cap” territory. It’s funny when Steve Martin says it, it’s just wacko when you do it. No way a bartender should be putting his mouth on my glass. Take a sip from your own glass, buddy. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/82 "2012-12-12T22:00:57Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one, mate 😉 The OP asked the question, I answered, and it’s not worth arguing about. I don’t even know what you’re disagreeing with. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/83 "2012-12-12T22:10:25Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I don’t even know what you’re disagreeing with. Well, if I’m reading the thread right, I said that I’d rather not have a waitperson take the silverware out of the rolled-up napkin and lay it on the table when my meal arrived. I would rather do that myself. You did not think I should feel that way, since said waitperson rolled said silverware in said napkin in the first place. That’s fine. We disagree. I prefer to unwrap my own cutlery. No reason to get snippy about it. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/84 "2012-12-12T22:13:06Z")
I thought the waiter just took the paper band off the napkin. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/85 "2012-12-12T22:18:23Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I thought the waiter just took the paper band off the napkin. > [@](#): > > 1. At a chain restaurant (Red Lobster), the waiter picked up my silverware, which are wrapped with a paper napkin and a little adhesive band, removed the adhesive band and set my silver and napkin on the table. It read that as setting the silver and napkin separately. If not, I’d still they rather not do it. Just a matter of taste. NBD. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/86 "2012-12-12T22:23:49Z")
I hate the waiter putting my napkin in my lap, and don’t mind not going to high-end places that would do that. Tying my lobster bib on for me would weird me out too, as would someone else undoing the utensil bundle. If everyone at as Chinese restaurant orders soup, they each get an individual bowl already poured before it gets to the table. I’ve never seen a communal bowl for that. I can understand the pizza service based on the comment above about the pan being hot when it first comes out. Taking a sip of my beverage before serving it to me is unthinkable. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/87 "2012-12-12T23:09:00Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > They aren’t doing it to correct your behavior, nor does it feel like that. Exactly. Ambience. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/88 "2012-12-12T23:15:12Z")
Missed the edit. ETA: if I’m eating at a nice place, and I visit the men’s, I don’t need someone to shake it off, but if someone is provided, hey, I ain’t gonna complain. Still ends up dry. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/89 "2012-12-12T23:16:28Z")
> [@Infovore](#): > > 1. At a couple of pizza restaurants in the Midwest (I have never seen this in California), the waiter delivers the pizza to the table and proceeds to dish up a slice onto each of our plates. When I served at a Midwestern pizza chain we were required to do this by corporate. Please for the love of god don’t take it out on your server. You can just politely tell them that you’re okay and they can go. Or you can switch plates, if it bothers you that much. I imagine all of your examples are required service by the restaurant management. Your server didn’t make the rules man, he just has to play the game so he can make the rent. You might try complaining to corporate that it’s a dumb irritating service to force upon the servers and customers, but I doubt you’ll get very far. Part of the restaurant experience is supposed to be the service. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/90 "2012-12-14T02:44:26Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > He’s your waiter. He’s been handling your actual food and he’s also the one who rolled the silverware in the napkin to begin with. If he’s been actually touching my food, then I want a refund. The cook has a reason to handle my food. The waiter does not. If they have, then they must have dropped it and had to pick it up or something like that. I find it odd the one you guys think is okay. Number 3 is the one that is normal. When refilling something, restaurant waiters often take a bigger version of it and dish or pour it out. The rest of the stuff is weird. 1. That napkin is dirty. You are touching it. You likely don’t immediately go and wash your hands. I could have been sick. You could be transmitting germs all over the restaurant. When they won’t even take your cup to give you refills, and always give you a new straw partially covered in plastic? Why would a fancy restaurant be less clean? 2. That just defeats the entire purpose of rolling the silverware in the first place. If you want to handle it that way, just keep them separate and do that. Lots of restaurants do it that way. 3. You’re right there with the person. Why in the world would you say “Would you like me to serve?” That’s always what happens to me in any restaurant that does that. They ask. That way they know if it bothers you or not. When you have a chance to ask, it’s stupid to make an assumption. You’re always going to get people who are upset. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/91 "2012-12-14T04:32:17Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If he’s been actually touching my food, then I want a refund. The cook has a reason to handle my food. The waiter does not. If they have, then they must have dropped it and had to pick it up or something like that. As usual, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Waitstaff often helps with plating, preparing salads and deserts, etc. ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/92 "2012-12-15T05:25:52Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Hey germaphobes, how about this: > > At my favorite beer place, with ~45 beers on draft, I ordered a glass of a new, unusual beer. Bartender poured it, then took a tiny sip before putting it down in front of me. Would thaty bother you? Yes. I would say “That looks tasty, could I have a glass too?” Usually when bartenders want to taste a drink they put a straw in, put a finger over the top and pull the straw out and deliver it to their mouth that way. The napkin would drive me crazy because I keep my napkin on the table so I can wipe my mouth on it. The paper napkin would bug me because what if I order something I don’t need silverware for? Now somebody’s work is undone for nothing. If I needed a napkin in this situation I would just ask for extras. Last couple wouldn’t bug me, but I do like to pick “my” slice of pizza. I also hate it for some reason when they box up your leftovers for you. (Or worse - take the plate back to the kitchen and do it!) ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/93 "2012-12-15T06:28:26Z")
As both a curmudgeon and a server, I can see both sides of the issue. I prefer my interactions with restaurant waitstaff and all other strangers providing me service in public to be limited to short, robotically friendly, soulless exchanges of necessary information, and only at my request. I do not appreciate them trying to sell me stuff, recommending me what they like, asking me endlessly if I am satisfied, asking me to rate their service performance, touching my shit, touching me, making conversation with me, or indeed doing most of the things considered ‘good service’. But I’m trained to do most of this stuff at any half-decent job I’ve had, and a lot of people not only enjoy and appreciate it, some even expect it. So while meeting the basic standards my employer holds me to, I just try to a]not do things that make me feel uncomfortable myself (folding/placing someone’s napkin for them would qualify) and b]judge what kind of interaction each customer wants/expects from me, and perform according to that. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/94 "2012-12-15T14:02:37Z")
The only thing in the OP I find at all strange is #2, and I probably would just think “Huh, that’s weird” and promptly forget about it. Well, that, or I would make a mental note about whether he placed the flatware properly and judge his attempt to fancy up my meal accordingly. (Who am I kidding? It would totally be the second option.) Everything else is pretty well bog standard for the venue. I’m not a particular fan of #1, but then again I’m not a particular fan of someone pushing in my chair or holding my coat while I put it on either, mostly because I’m not used to that sort of thing and my response is awkward and uncoordinated. Now, someone other than my husband taking a sip out of my drink before handing it to me is totally unacceptable. I’m not a germaphobe and freely offer people sips of stuff out of my glass, but it’s _my_ drink and as such _I_ get the first drink and control over who else gets any of it. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/95 "2012-12-15T14:23:13Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. At a “fancy” restaurant, the waiter picked up my cloth napkin from the table and placed it in my lap when I sat down. > 2. At a chain restaurant (Red Lobster), the waiter picked up my silverware, which are wrapped with a paper napkin and a little adhesive band, removed the adhesive band and set my silver and napkin on the table. > 3. At the casual Chinese restaurant near our house, when we order soup the waiter brings it in a big bowl and dishes each of us a smaller bowl at the table (there is still a fair bit left in the big bowl). > 4. At a couple of pizza restaurants in the Midwest (I have never seen this in California), the waiter delivers the pizza to the table and proceeds to dish up a slice onto each of our plates. A zillion years in service, here’s my take (It’s not that I don’t fully see why some people find these things offputting, I totally do. They are the minority though, not that there’s anything wrong with that!); 1. In a fancy restaurant the waiters want to reinforce that you are getting ‘fancier’ service. To guide them in how to do that there are very old ‘rules’, french service, etc, to fall back on. But, these days, much like wedding etiquette, strict adherence to form is truly lost on most people. That’s where this particular detail comes from I believe. And you’d be surprised how many people who frequent high end places want these kind of overt displays, that’s part of what they’re paying for. 2. People are much stupider than you can imagine, if you have not worked in service, I promise. They most likely do so, in part, so they don’t get called back with a, “Where’s our cutlery, Doh?”, and part to check it’s clean before it goes to the customer. Nothing will cost you a gratuity faster than dirty tableware! Of course they could have simply been instructed to do so as well. 3.The Chinese waiter is doing this, in small part because he doesn’t believe non Chinese people are smart enough to know how to eat from a communal dish, the way it’s done in many Chinese homes. He doesn’t want you to embarrass yourself trying, hence separate bowls. And again, people can be incredibly inept, make terrible messes, given the opportunity. It’s hot soup, he’s just playing it safe. 4.Back to how stupid people can be, I’m afraid. Was it served on a pedestal type serving dish? If so, that is your answer. If you’re not used to doing it, like the waiter, it’s remarkably easy, to attempt to cut it where it’s restuck back together, and tip the whole lot onto the table. Big mess, no tip. But honestly, a simple and well timed, “That’s okay!”, “I’ll do that!”, “We’ll take care of that, thanks!”, will not offend any server I assure you. Pick up the cloth napkin as soon as you sit down. It’s not hard really. You should know though, if you end up dropping your Red Lobster cutlery, or it’s not clean, you knock your pizza onto your table, or spill hot soup on your guests the waiters are going to dis you a little behind your back! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/96 "2012-12-15T14:39:05Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > I’m not a particular fan of someone pushing in my chair Worse yet, if you are sitting at the bar and someone offers to push in your stool!:eek: But seriously, at home or in a restaurant I usually push my gf’s chair in. She likes that sorta thing. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/97 "2012-12-15T16:42:39Z")
None of these would even show up on my radar, except the waiter taking a sip of beer. I’d assume they had over poured and the ship was an automatic response. > [@elbows](#): > > 3.The Chinese waiter is doing this, in small part because he doesn’t believe non Chinese people are smart enough to know how to eat from a communal dish, the way it’s done in many Chinese homes. He doesn’t want you to embarrass yourself trying, hence separate bowls. And again, people can be incredibly inept, make terrible messes, given the opportunity. It’s hot soup, he’s just playing it safe. Soup is not typically eaten directly from the main dish in China. Soup is traditionally the final course, and would serve to sop up any remaining rice and tidbits in your smaller personal bowl. A waiter wouldn’t dish directly into your bowl, because you may have politely stashed some bones or gristle in your bowl during the meal. Your neighbor, however, would quite likely motion to ladle your soup. Throughout a Chinese meal it’s common for people sharing a table to refill each other’s drinks, and to plop the tastiest tidbits on the plate of others (particularly honored guests.) Pretty much everything about the way Americans eat Chinese food is (to Chinese eyes) pretty strange, so I’d guess the serving of soup (already bizarrely the first course) is just a random way this restaurant made up to cope with an already unorthodox soup presentation. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/98 "2012-12-15T16:56:20Z")
I have been in a Chinese home where soup was served in a communal dish. I was nervous and my Chinese friend was telling me how much fun she would have watching me try to not commit the sin of dripping, between the communal soup bowl in the centre of the table, and my mouth. She had me quite nervous by dinner time. But when we sat down her Mom, had very graciously provided a separate bowl for me, so I would not embarrass myself. Much to my friend’s disappointment! Soup was served exactly this way many times while I was there. And they never once dripped!😃 So yes, it is still practiced among families. Less so when eating out. The Chinese are nothing if not a varied people! ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/99 "2012-12-15T17:26:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Nothing will cost you a gratuity faster than dirty tableware! Of course they could have simply been instructed to do so as well. I don’t hold the server responsible for dirty tableware, unless I see him/her drop it on the floor and then put it on my table. I’ve never had a server unwrap my tableware. My thought is that possibly the server knew that there was a problem with the dishwasher, and s/he was checking for dirty tableware. Taking a sip of my drink, though, unless I specifically invite it…THAT will cost the server/bartender the tip. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724/100 "2012-12-15T17:26:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Nothing will cost you a gratuity faster than dirty tableware! Of course they could have simply been instructed to do so as well. I don’t hold the server responsible for dirty tableware, unless I see him/her drop it on the floor and then put it on my table. I’ve never had a server unwrap my tableware. My thought is that possibly the server knew that there was a problem with the dishwasher, and s/he was checking for dirty tableware. Taking a sip of my drink, though, unless I specifically invite it…THAT will cost the server/bartender the tip. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-waitperson-behavior-presumptuous-or-helpful/643724.md?page=6)