# IS this what u want ??? be honest .... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 23, 2003, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621 "2003-04-23T16:35:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/101 "2003-04-26T18:07:59Z")
Gee, you don’t want us judging all Muslims, but it’s okay for you to judge all Jews? Pot, meet the kettle. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/102 "2003-04-26T19:00:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Inssanah \* > BUT WHAT DO U WANT ME TO SAY … ARGUING THEM … I’LL NOT… Actually, you have yet to begin discussing the issue. All you have done is throw out falsehoods expecting the rest of us to accept it because you have accepted those falsehoods. The problem with that procedure is that the rest of us here appear to have an inkling of what the process of critical thought is. > [@](#): > > IF THEY TURN THE MOST IMPORTANT SUBJECT UP SIDE DOWN … Well, if you think the subject is so important, you might want to take a moment to do what others on this site have asked you to do: provide context, relevance, source, and citations to a valid non-biased site. Failing that, you are the one treating it as a joke. > [@](#): > > THEY TREATED IT AS LAUGHING SHOW … Apparently, they were going off of your presentation of the issue as a joke. You see, if you think the issue (which you have yet to define, btw) is so important, it would behoove you to not tout falsehoods in support of it. By touting those falsehoods, you prove that it is you and not they who does not take the issue seriously. > [@](#): > > AND SOME OF THEM CHANGE THE TRUTH … Changing the truth is an impossibility. On the other hand, telling lies is not impossible, as you have ably demonstrated. > [@](#): > > AND SOME OF THEM … USING … BAD WRDS … I CAN’T EVEN SAY IT … Oh, bullshit. There’s really no such thing as a bad word. There’s a range of acceptability in situations for particular words and phrases. Since this site started, the BBQ Pit has been the one forum where “bad words” are not only permitted but kind of expected. > [@](#): > > WHEN U SEE THE STRANGE DESTROYING THE INNOCENT PEOPLE’S COUNTRY … UNDER THE NAME OF FREEDOM … Apparently you forgot to check with all those Iraqi citizens who are extremely pleased that (1) their country was not destroyed, and (2) the dictator who denied them freedom is now out of power, thus giving them freeedom. > [@](#): > > I’M GOING TO ANSWER ONLY THIS … I’m breathless. > [@](#): > > MR. Jeff Olsen > > U ASK ME ABOUT 9\11 … I believe Jeff asked you about the attacks on September 11, 2001 because you are the one taking what you view as the bad actions of a few and applying it to the many. There’s a phrase in English: “What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.” > [@](#): > > OUR PROPHET MUHAMMAD( PBUH ) PREVENT US FROM KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE EVEN AT WAR The Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) did not prevent anyone from doing anything. And since he is not alive now, he certainly can’t prevent anyone from doing anything. It’s a fact that his words did not prevent a handful of Muslims from _ **murdering** _ over three thousand innocent people. Some of those innocents, by the way, you stupid lazy intentionally ignorant fool, were Muslims. > [@](#): > > … AND AS MUSLEMS WE DON’T AGREE TO DO SO … > IN OUR BELIEVE WE KILL ,ONLY, THE BAD PEOPLE WHO FIGHT ISLAM AND KILL MUSLEMS , More bullshit. > [@](#): > > WE FIGHAT THE INVADERS , More bullshit. You are advocating not doing anything about an invader (Iraq) who invaded another Muslim land (Kuwait). > [@](#): > > WE FIGHT THE PEOPLE WHO TRY TO OCCUPY OUR ISLAMIC COUNTRIES LIKE JEWISH Israel is not trying to occupy any country. Firstly, Palestine is not a country. Second, the PLO’s leadership tossed out the chance for a decent and honest peaceful co-existance. Thirdly, it is the Arab countries who foster the hatred you espouse against Israel. Fourthly, all Israel wants is defensible borders and peace. > [@](#): > > … THE MOST BAD PEOPLE … You now prove you are nothing but a bigot. To call an entire people “the most bad” is insulting to even a moron’s intelligence. \<----By that comment, I mean you should feel insulted by yourself. > [@](#): > > BUT WHAT HAPPENED IN 9\11 SOMTHING STRANGE … EVEN TO US Explain, then, the happiness demonstrated by some Muslims upon receiving the news that those attacks happened. Try telling the truth this time. > [@](#): > > IS THIS ENOUGH Jeff Olsen ?? It’s not enough for me, you lazy sod, because you have yet to utter a grain of truth. > [@](#): > > OK > > WHAT DO THINK ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN PALESTINE NOW & IN IRAQ ??? I think there are many people, like you, who insult the Noble Qu’ran, Muhammed (PBUH), and Allah and their teachings by your constant refusal to utter the truth and your preaching prejudice. The Qu’ran forbids everything you just did in this post. Are you proud of yourself? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/103 "2003-04-26T19:04:36Z")
> [@](#): > > BUT WHAT DO U WANT ME TO SAY … ARGUING THEM … I’LL NOT… You do know that, by refusing to address challenges brought up to your original post, you’re only DAMAGING your stance on the issue, right? > [@](#): > > IF THEY TURN THE MOST IMPORTANT SUBJECT UP SIDE DOWN … You’re full of shit. If you’d step into Great Debates, you’d see that many people are debating the issue quite maturely and rationally, using stats and facts and figures to support their case. You do NOT use facts or figures… instead, you’re pulling the old “appeal to emotion” fallacy which tugs at the heartstrings, but when looked at rationally (or "cold-heartedly: :rolleyes: ) is really devoid of substance. > [@](#): > > THEY TREATED IT AS LAUGHING SHOW … Get over your victimization complex. If you’d actually shut your mouth and open your eyes for a second, you’ll see that the issue has been taken quite seriously all across this board. People aren’t LAUGHING at you, they’re scorning you… simply because you’re doing so much damage to the anti-war movement. > [@](#): > > AND SOME OF THEM CHANGE THE TRUTH … Explain how, please. > [@](#): > > AND SOME OF THEM … USING … BAD WRDS … I CAN’T EVEN SAY IT … Poor fucking little asshole piece of shit, can’t stand a few naughty words. You don’t have to say it. Just answer my questions: How do the pictures you linked to prove anything? > [@](#): > > WHEN U SEE THE STRANGE DESTROYING THE INNOCENT PEOPLE’S COUNTRY … UNDER THE NAME OF FREEDOM … Please explain how Iraq is “destroyed”. (To all other members: Yes, I realize that I’m just wasting my time trying to reason with this twit, English-speaking or not English-speaking. But, like Shodan, I’m an optimist.) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/104 "2003-04-26T19:25:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > instead, you’re pulling the old “appeal to emotion” fallacy Actually, Spoofe, the lazy bigoted bitch is pulling the old “Blame the Jews” fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/105 "2003-04-26T23:12:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by flight \* > \*\*I am going to appologize ahead of time for this as I am not one to make fun of others who have difficulty with a language (I sound like a retarded 2 year old when I speak French), but as this discussion seems to be going nowhere it ameliorates my consience a bit. Did anyone else think of a certain short green guy when they heard, “ARGUING THEM … I’LL NOT…?” \*\* No…What’s the reference? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/106 "2003-04-26T23:14:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > **I believe Jeff asked you about the attacks on September 11, 2001 because you are the one taking what you view as the bad actions of a few and applying it to the many. There’s a phrase in English: "What’s good for the goose is good for the gander."** Right on, **Monty**. On the upside, at least she’s finally addressing some questions here. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/107 "2003-04-26T23:15:20Z")
> [@](#): > > No…What’s the reference? Yoda. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/108 "2003-04-26T23:17:59Z")
D’oh! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/109 "2003-04-27T02:20:48Z")
Profane the name of the Great Master Yoda do not!!! ---
**Author:** ![ronbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ba9def/32.png) [@ronbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ronbo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/110 "2003-04-27T03:18:42Z")
Inssanah: About the photos: Where are the photos of people that were killed because Saddam placed weapons and headquarters in mosques, schools, hospitals and neighborhoods? Where are the photos of people that were tortured and killed by Iraqis because they tried to flee the fighting? Where are the photos of people that were forced to attack the Americans or their families would be killed? Where are the photos of American soldiers that were killed by “surrendering” Iraqis? Where are the photos of civilians inadvertantly killed by Americans because Iraqis dressed as civilians killed Americans? More importantly, where were you before the war? Where are the photos of women and children dying because Saddam spent food and medicine money on palaces and weapons? Where are the photos of the Shiites massacred by Saddam? Where are the photos of citizens tortured and executed by Saddam? Where are the photos of women and children gassed by Saddam? Where were the Arabs, the Muslims and the peace protesters before the war? If you did nothing to stop the killing before the war, you have no credibility now. You had at least 12 years to stop the killing. Your way failed miserably. We did it in three weeks. Fewer people died our way. How many hundreds of thousands of people have died in those 12 years as a direct consequence of Saddam and your failure to stop him? How many died by American hands during the war? You think your way is better? Somebody help me: Since Saddam took power, what is his average weekly death toll? On what date have fewer innocent people died because America finally said “enough!”? Inssanah, Americans grieve all of the deaths, Coalition and Iraqi, but we know that because of those deaths, so many more will now be able to live. Inssanah, I apologize for the members that have insulted you and made fun of this thread. But you must understand the great insult to America and Americans when you do not understand how much pain we feel for our fellow humans. We clearly feel more pain for the Iraqi people than you do. I can say this because we proved it by doing something for the Iraqi people. We did it at great cost to ourselves. Inssanah, you now have a chance to redeem yourself. America will leave Iraq as soon as the Iraqi’s show that they can live together peacefully: That one faction is not going to impose itself the others and that the Iraqi people are not going to allow tyranny. As Germany and Japan became world powers after we “conquered” them, Iraq now has the chance to become a world power. Help the world and the Iraqis understand this. I give you this jihad: Reach as many Muslims as you can to condem and remove the mullahs that preach violence and martyrdom, that preach intolerance. Help stop violence against innocent people. Help show the world that Islam is a peaceful and tolerant religion. Peace Ron ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/111 "2003-04-27T05:43:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Inssanah \* > \*\*IN OUR BELIEVE WE KILL ,ONLY, THE BAD PEOPLE WHO FIGHT ISLAM AND KILL MUSLEMS , WE FIGHAT THE INVADERS , WE FIGHT THE PEOPLE WHO TRY TO OCCUPY OUR ISLAMIC COUNTRIES LIKE JEWISH … THE MOST BAD PEOPLE … \*\* What a bigoted crock of swill. I guess Saddam was too busy murdering Kurds and Shiite Muslims to have much time to spare for “the most bad people”. Speaking of “FIGHAT”, isn’t it a shame that the only song of theirs you hear on classic rock stations is “Slow Ride”? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/112 "2003-04-27T07:03:31Z")
I just noticed this. > [@](#): > > IN OUR BELIEVE WE KILL ,ONLY, THE BAD PEOPLE WHO **FIGHT ISLAM** AND KILL MUSLEMS Bolding mine. Now, couldn’t it be interpreted, in the minds of the minority of Muslims who fill the “nutcase psychotic fanatic” category, that “fighting Islam” involves “not converting to the Islamic faith”? I’m not trying to say that Muslims believe they can kill non-Muslims. I’m just saying that just because it says on paper “don’t kill them”, someone who really wants to find a justification, will. Kinda like how “pro-lifers” will make hit lists of abortion doctors. ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/113 "2003-04-27T07:55:44Z")
And did you happen to see the Iraqi fellow with half of his ear cut off, on CNN, because he protested the quality of the food in the marketplaces? Did you hear him say how he hopes the Americans can help him, so he can have a normal life, and not have others treat him with contempt? We are not all for this war, in America, neither are we perfect. It does not serve our purposes for innocent people to suffer, starve and be tortured like Saddam has done. Negotiate with us. Bring the Shiites to the meeting table and have them voice their opinions, they have a good chance of creating a frre government where all have rights, Inssanah, and none will ever be tortured again, for dissent, nor for any other reason. ---
**Author:** ![Morrigoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/858c86/32.png) [@Morrigoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morrigoon)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/114 "2003-04-27T08:19:41Z")
Just FYI: If Insannah is posting from Saudi Arabia, and parallel parking (aka: driving), then Insannah is a he. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/115 "2003-04-27T09:17:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Morrigoon \* > \*\*Just FYI: If Insannah is posting from Saudi Arabia, and parallel parking (aka: driving), then Insannah is a he. \*\* No no— **Coldfire** was referencing a formerposter (heh heh) who once claimed to have been posting from his car. **Insannah** said nothing about parallel parking. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/116 "2003-04-27T10:17:22Z")
Forgot to say: **ronbo** , welcome to the board! ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/117 "2003-04-27T10:35:18Z")
XJETGIRLX, I’m glad to see there is a real human being behind your name. You had me fooled at first. I wasn’t “squirming” – were you? Certainly the poster could be some “14 year old boy who gets his kicks out of making us squirm.” The same is true of you and me and anyone else here who posts something inflammatory. But since I can’t know that for sure, I see no reason to become a shrew when addressing her comments. I hope for your sake that the OP really _is_ some kid who lives under a bridge and not a Muslem woman living in Saudi Arabia and concerned about the death of innocents. Eve, I also would like a reasonable exchange on the subject – especially answers to the questions that you asked. Since all responses were made only to those who were critical, I assume that there is little chance of that happening. (sigh) Spoofe, calm yourself. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/118 "2003-04-27T10:40:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > Where is **Collounsbury** when you need him? Having a relaxing weekend, that’s where. Pity a bit of a sandstorm blew up and ruined my traditional Friday brunch with my amigos and amigas, but wasn’t bad overall. But I wasn’t really needed, was I? I mean really. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/119 "2003-04-27T20:43:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > \*\*But I wasn’t really needed, was I? I mean really. \*\* Are you ever needed? I mean really. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621/120 "2003-04-28T05:31:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Spoofe, calm yourself. Blow me, knee **jerk** er. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-what-u-want-be-honest/170621.md?page=7)