# Is this where the phrase "The whole nine yards" originated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 19, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908 "2021-01-19T19:21:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SHARKBITEATTACK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@SHARKBITEATTACK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SHARKBITEATTACK)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/1 "2021-01-19T19:21:52Z")
https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?height=224&width=400&share_id&href=https://www.facebook.com/InternalCombustionMedia/videos/741333646759588/ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/2 "2021-01-19T19:27:52Z")
I’m pretty sure this particular claim was debunked in one of the threads we have had on the subject, and the term predates his claim, I think. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/3 "2021-01-19T19:29:12Z")
A menu of choices: > **['The Whole Nine Yards' Etymology](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-whole-nine-yards/)** > > The etymology of the phrase 'the whole nine yards.' ---
**Author:** ![cytop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f17d59/32.png) [@cytop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cytop)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/4 "2021-01-19T19:32:03Z")
More opinions here: > **[What’s the origin of “the whole nine yards”?](https://www.straightdope.com/21341689/what-s-the-origin-of-the-whole-nine-yards)** ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/5 "2021-01-19T19:52:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m pretty sure this particular claim was debunked in one of the threads we have had on the subject, and the term predates his claim, I think. The OPs post is just a blank expanse to me. What’s the claim being made? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/6 "2021-01-19T19:54:15Z")
That the “The whole nine yards” refers to the amount of ammo used by a set of machine guns on a WWII Corsair. ---
**Author:** ![pirviii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pirviii/32/3233_2.png) [@pirviii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pirviii)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/7 "2021-01-19T20:37:14Z")
It seems to me that the 9 yards is like 42 in Hitchhikers Guide, we have the answer, but nobody knows the correct question. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/8 "2021-01-19T20:43:03Z")
My own feeling is that it originates from the Judges’ Shirt story, but can offer no proof. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/9 "2021-01-19T20:48:15Z")
Whatever the origin, it certainly wasn’t from a reference to a WWII plane, since the first idiomatic use dates from no later than 1907, according to the OED. > 1907 Mitchell (Indiana) Commerc. 2 May The regular nine is going to play the business men as many innings as they can stand, but we can not promise the full nine yards. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/10 "2021-01-19T20:55:19Z")
I’ve always thought it was used ironically as a football reference. Since nine yards is one yard short of a first down, even if someone were to get the “whole nine” yards, they still don’t have 100% despite the implication of the word whole. I imagine a worker somewhere who thinks they have completed a task but left something undone. Their boss comes along and would say something like “looks like you went the whole nine yards” to tell them that they in fact didn’t complete the task. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/11 "2021-01-19T20:59:47Z")
But that’s not at all what the phrase means. It means “everything, the whole lot”, not “almost everything”. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/12 "2021-01-19T21:35:01Z")
I’ve worked out the proof, but it’s too large to fit in this margin. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/13 "2021-01-19T21:36:26Z")
Our own @Tammi_Terrell did a ton of research on this issue and found that the original phrase was actually the “whole six yards.” She talked about in this long and critically important thread. [Unraveling “the whole nine yards” - Comments on Cecil’s Columns/Staff Reports - Straight Dope Message Board](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unraveling-the-whole-nine-yards/645245) Another thread is also crucial: [the whole nine yards - Comments on Cecil’s Columns/Staff Reports - Straight Dope Message Board](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/527852/93) That thread contains dozens of examples and dozens and links, covering just about everything that’s known about early uses of the phrase. There’s not a chance the phrase comes from any of the usual suspects that are thrown up by the internet. Those threads show that “nine yards” is found in the early 20th century and “six yards” in the 19th. (And yes, all the “three yards” would be found in the 18th century jokes were made.) It’s not even true that ammo belts were nine yards long. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/14 "2021-01-19T21:41:18Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > But that’s not at all what the phrase means. It means “everything, the whole lot”, not “almost everything”. Sure, but the meanings of words and phrases can and do get inverted by ironic use, corruption, misunderstanding etc; for example: ‘could care less’ and ‘literally’ ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/15 "2021-01-19T22:08:11Z")
We likely know all we will know about this phrase. We don’t know it’s origin, just a few possible origins. Some things can’t be determined with certainty. Most things really. The story of the search is now more interesting than the phrase itself. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/16 "2021-01-20T01:16:16Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Sure, but the meanings of words and phrases can and do get inverted by ironic use, corruption, misunderstanding etc; for example: ‘could care less’ and ‘literally’ They _can_, true, but where is the evidence that this one has? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/17 "2021-01-20T15:58:13Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > 1907 Mitchell (Indiana) Commerc. 2 May The regular nine is going to play the business men as many innings as they can stand, but we can not promise the full nine yards. Interesting that this appears to be a reference to baseball, not football, with “yards” meaning innings. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/18 "2021-01-20T21:57:43Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > They _can_ , true, but where is the evidence that this one has? There isn’t any. Just felt it was worth saying that the origin of an idiom shouldn’t be dismissed on the sole basis of being an exact opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/19 "2021-01-21T01:27:37Z")
> [@naita](#): > > The OPs post is just a blank expanse to me. What’s the claim being made? The claim seems to be that the OP is something more than just a blank expanse. (Which is all I see too.) So either somebody in this thread is seeing things that aren’t there, or somebody in this thread isn’t seeing things that are there. This is apparently the True Litmus Test to distinguish Normal Humans from Lizard People. Like naita, I just see a vast blank expanse. What does that make us? (The OP actually contains a YouTube link that, apparently, some of us are insufficiently privileged to see.) ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908/20 "2021-01-21T22:31:41Z")
I had always assumed that it referred to football. last down, kick or try? If you’d only made one yard so far, in 3 downs (2 in Canada), then the last down to get another first down you have to get the whole nine (remaining) yards. So it refers to something difficult given that you’ve already tried and failed repeatedly, but a gamble for all or nothing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-where-the-phrase-the-whole-nine-yards-originated/930908.md?page=2)