# Is this Wong or is it White? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 19, 2002, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535 "2002-04-19T15:42:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/1 "2002-04-19T15:42:25Z")
> [@](#): > > [CNN link](http://www.cnn.com/2002/BUSINESS/asia/04/19/sanfran.abercrombie.reut/index.html) > > Clothing maker Abercrombie & Fitch said on Thursday it was pulling a new line of Asian-themed T-shirts after Asian-American groups complained they were a blatant example of racist stereotyping. > > The shirts, carry caricatures of slant-eyed Asians in conical hats along with such slogans as “WONG BROTHERS LAUNDRY SERVICE: TWO WONGS CAN MAKE IT WHITE” and “WOK-N-BOWL – CHINESE FOOD AND BOWLING.” Well, what can I say? I find them ingenious _and_ funny. A few Chinese friends of mine also find them funny but they are not Californians, they are actual Chinese… And the (less than) Great Debate is: Is this racist or is this PC? Can it be racist _and_ funny? Can it be PC _and_ funny? Allof the above? None of the above? ---
**Author:** ![Dryga\_Yes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@Dryga\_Yes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dryga_Yes)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/2 "2002-04-19T16:14:41Z")
I think it’s funny here, but it has to be taken in context. If I see a 14-year old suburban white guy walking around with one of these T-shirts and his new sneakers he nagged his mom into buying for him, my first guess would be that he’s kind of racist. And, well, that’s A&F’s main demographic, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/3 "2002-04-19T16:18:25Z")
_sigh_ why does all the fun stuff have to be so wong I mean - so wRong… Yeah Just an innocent mistake _snicker_ ---
**Author:** ![tradesilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tradesilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tradesilicon)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/4 "2002-04-19T16:21:37Z")
Never seen or heard of this line, but sounds fun to me. They should not have pulled the line - instead they should come out with one for every possible “group” we can think of, and then no one could complain. But someone still would… ---
**Author:** ![archmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@archmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/archmichael)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/5 "2002-04-19T17:04:40Z")
What’s the debate here? If they had a big-lipped Sambo character on the t-shirt, and advertised it as watermelon and fried chicken stain resistant, it wouldn’t be funny. If they had a Mexican bandito character on the t-shirt, and advertised it as having more cotton on the shirt for that “dry back” feeling, it would be offensive. Or do most of the people who found it funny think like the A&F people do? That Asians are a small and generally non-vocal community that can be made fun of with little or no consequences. ---
**Author:** ![horhay\_achoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@horhay\_achoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/horhay_achoa)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/6 "2002-04-19T17:09:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by archmichael \* > \*\*What’s the debate here? If they had a big-lipped Sambo character on the t-shirt, and advertised it as watermelon and fried chicken stain resistant, it wouldn’t be funny. If they had a Mexican bandito character on the t-shirt, and advertised it as having more cotton on the shirt for that “dry back” feeling, it would be offensive. > > Or do most of the people who found it funny think like the A&F people do? That Asians are a small and generally non-vocal community that can be made fun of with little or no consequences. \*\* I think those other shirts would be hilarious:eek: ---
**Author:** ![archmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@archmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/archmichael)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/7 "2002-04-19T17:13:23Z")
> [@](#): > > I think those other shirts would be hilarious Doesn’t surprise me. ---
**Author:** ![tradesilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tradesilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tradesilicon)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/8 "2002-04-19T17:22:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tradesilicon \* > … they should come out with one for every possible “group” we can think of, and then no one could complain. \*\*But someone still would… \*\* And it didn’t take long, did it. I give you **archmichael** , defender of the meek! [sub]sheeesh, get over yourself man.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/9 "2002-04-19T17:23:36Z")
This reminds me of the Speedy Gonzales debate . . . uptight whities demanding an “offensive” piece of free speech be squashed, while their erstwhile wards find it as funny as all get out. ---
**Author:** ![archmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@archmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/archmichael)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/10 "2002-04-19T17:29:38Z")
> [@](#): > > And it didn’t take long, did it. I give you archmichael, defender of the meek! Boy, and here I was expecting a debate. But what would I expect from **tradesilicon** sole arbitrator of who can get offended at what! person: I am offended. **tradesilicon** : You have no right to be offended! person: Why? **tradesilicon** : Because I say you shouldn’t be offended! And you tell me to get over myself? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/11 "2002-04-19T18:07:40Z")
Let me modify this dialog with one little insertion: > [@](#): > > person: **This TV show features a homosexual** I am offended. > **tradesilicon** : You have no right to be offended! > person: Why? > **tradesilicon** : Because I say you shouldn’t be offended! OR > [@](#): > > person: **That white girl is marryin’ up with that black boy.** I am offended. > **tradesilicon** : You have no right to be offended! > person: Why? > **tradesilicon** : Because I say you shouldn’t be offended! OR > [@](#): > > person: **I find you ugly, and you share the same office space as me.** I am offended. > **tradesilicon** : You have no right to be offended! > person: Why? > **tradesilicon** : Because I say you shouldn’t be offended! You don’t think these exchanges are realistic? Come on, archmichael, we encounter arbiters of who can be offended at what all the freakin’ time. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/12 "2002-04-19T18:09:52Z")
The question is why is it that a caricature or joke is only offensive when it is about non-whites and it is ok if it is about whites. Is uncle Sam offensive? ---
**Author:** ![tradesilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tradesilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tradesilicon)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/13 "2002-04-19T18:32:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by archmichael \* > \*\* > Boy, and here I was expecting a debate. But what would I expect from **tradesilicon** sole arbitrator of who can get offended at what! > > person: I am offended. > **tradesilicon** : You have no right to be offended! > person: Why? > **tradesilicon** : Because I say you shouldn’t be offended! > > And you tell me to get over myself? \*\* Yup, get over yourself. You may be offended at anything you please, you may be offended that I am not offended. You may take it to any extreme you wish, however, I am free to find things amusing, and that is presisely why it is a debate. I said if they had a gag for every group you can think of then no one should take offence, but I guess it is also possible that everyone would. Sorry I started this, I’ve had this conversation tooooo many times to rehash all this for a shirt. Please feel free to take offence at any of the statements in this post. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/14 "2002-04-19T18:32:18Z")
[Pictures of the shirt](http://www.spacetowns.com/keen/RacistShirts.htm) ---
**Author:** ![archmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@archmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/archmichael)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/15 "2002-04-19T18:42:24Z")
**Doghouse Reilly** : All of those are valid exchanges and have come up probably countless times in this forum. However, in each of those instances the debate is whethe it is right or wrong to feel that way. **tradesilicon** in his quote, > [@](#): > > Never seen or heard of this line, but sounds fun to me. They should not have pulled the line - instead they should come out with one for every possible “group” we can think of, and then no one could complain. But someone still would… seems to be saying that he is offended that others are offended. If you, or **tradesilicon** want to bring up arguments as to why it’s wrong for Asians to be offended, I’d really like to hear them. ---
**Author:** ![tradesilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tradesilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tradesilicon)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/16 "2002-04-19T18:42:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*The question is why is it that a caricature or joke is only offensive when it is about non-whites and it is ok if it is about whites. Is uncle Sam offensive? \*\* Yes, let’s examine. How many have posted (at these very message boards) redneck jokes and web sites? If these shirts had “Billy Bob’s Oil Change and Ribs, fill your oil and you stomikkk!” would you scream out in protest? ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/17 "2002-04-19T19:36:04Z")
> [@](#): > > The question is why is it that a caricature or joke is only offensive when it is about non-whites and it is ok if it is about whites. Is uncle Sam offensive? You’re reaching. Uncle Sam isn’t a caricature of white people. Also, let’s be realistic here, as **Doghouse Reilly** suggests. In the past caricatures and humor have been used as weapons against minorities right alongside more vicious weapons like violence and bigotry. You can’t blame people for associating one with the other after they’ve been packaged together for such a long time. Historically, jokes about white people were rarely followed up with a beating or a lynching while the law looked the other way. If you think you can just wave your anti-PC wand and kill this association, then you’re the one living in a fantasy world. You like to tell rape jokes to your sister after she’s been raped? Sure, they’re funny in a strictly objective sense, but that doesn’t mean you’re not an asshole for telling them. You are. And Abercrombie and Fitch are in just the same way with these obnoxious t-shirts. They’re acting as if racism is something that’s all over and done with and we can all laugh about it now. That’s incredibly insulting to a person who has to deal with it daily. -fh ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/18 "2002-04-19T19:36:19Z")
\>\> If these shirts had “Billy Bob’s Oil Change and Ribs, fill your oil and you stomikkk!” would you scream out in protest? hmmm… no. I cannot imagine I would. Besides, rednecks are a fact of life. The CNN page says local activists said “their cartoonish representation of Asian figures carried a racist message” As I am quite dumb and don’t get it, can someone explain to me what exactly is the racist message? Because I am not getting it. Check out the link supplied by **SmackFu**. One shirt is racist beause it depicts a naked asian woman with yellow skin and a dragon in the background. So a picture of a naked dutch woman among the tulips and windmills is racist? In what way? Yup, I’m still not getting it. ---
**Author:** ![horhay\_achoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@horhay\_achoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/horhay_achoa)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/19 "2002-04-19T19:51:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tradesilicon \* > \*\* > > Yes, let’s examine. > > How many have posted (at these very message boards) redneck jokes and web sites? If these shirts had “Billy Bob’s Oil Change and Ribs, fill your oil and you stomikkk!” would you scream out in protest? \*\* NO. I have actually done something like that. I said that plastic beer bottles were for red necks who liked to go to NASCAR races. I know that not all NASCAR fans are red necks and vice-versa, but the stereotype is that people who like NASCAR are red necks…just ask Jeff Foxworthy. Do I care if the person is a red neck or not? NO. Do I have friends who watch NASCAR? yes. Do I have friends who I would consider red necks? yes. Who cares? I just don’t see why anyone would be offended by that. I have been called “a f\*\*ckin idiot” to my face before. Directly. No association through a stereotype or anything, but I know that I am not an idiot so it didn’t bother me. ---
**Author:** ![My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/My_Darn_Snake_Legs)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535/20 "2002-04-19T20:06:27Z")
I may have to go in with **sailor** on this. Why exactly are these considered offensive? My girlfriend is a big A&F fan and has a t-shirt that reads something like: “Night time football, bring your own equipment.” Is that racist? (or maybe “sportist?”) I think that a couple of those shirts are pretty witty, and that last one is beautiful! I just don’t think that the Asian community is picking a very good fight here. If I saw a shirt depicting a Scotsman wearing a kilt and saying something witty and endorsing something obviously ficticious I wouldn’t be offended. –==the sax man==– [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-wong-or-is-it-white/104535.md?page=2)