# Is "Toe-rag" Racist/Ethnicist? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 25, 2015, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423 "2015-06-25T04:30:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/21 "2015-06-25T14:02:00Z")
I lived in Mali, and Tuareg sounds nothing at all like toe rag. Also, I don’t know where VW got that ridiculous spelling. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/22 "2015-06-25T14:40:17Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Also, I don’t know where VW got that ridiculous spelling. It’s French, and I don’t see what’s ridiculous about it, it’s just -ou- instead of -u-. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/23 "2015-06-25T15:47:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s French, and I don’t see what’s ridiculous about it, it’s just -ou- instead of -u-. Ah, right. Despite being trained in French, I never saw the word spelled any other way. Why the Germans would use a French name is a bit of mystery. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/24 "2015-06-25T16:27:40Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Why can’t they be both? > [Nested hierarchies.](http://paoloviscardi.com/2011/04/21/apes-are-monkeys-deal-with-it/) That diagram doesn’t seem to jibe with the classifications It seems that there are two families inside of the order rather than apes being a subset of monkeys. Additionally, it doesn’t seem at all helpful to call humans monkeys as the author suggests would be acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/25 "2015-06-25T16:33:57Z")
I’m pretty sure anything with -rag as a suffix is going to fall into the racio/ethno/sexism category. Pretty soon dish-rag is going to offend a sensitive chef. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/26 "2015-06-25T16:40:10Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Ah, right. Despite being trained in French, I never saw the word spelled any other way. Why the Germans would use a French name is a bit of mystery. It’s the spelling used in some of the territories where the people in question live. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/27 "2015-06-25T17:05:03Z")
Our culture has “evolved” to the point where all insults are racist. It’s like the word stupid. It starts with “stu” which is like the royal house of Stuart which once ruled England. So it’s clearly a racist insult against white people. The British represent colonial domination over minorities and therefore their flag should be banned. Am I missing anything? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/28 "2015-06-25T18:13:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s the spelling used in some of the territories where the people in question live. Not surprising, since Mali was a French colony and French is still spoken there in the more urban areas like Mopti, Segou and Bamako. I just never saw it written. ---
**Author:** ![HeXen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@HeXen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeXen)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/29 "2015-06-25T18:19:18Z")
You can use any word or make up your own and simply use it in a racist or insulting context so what difference does it matter. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/30 "2015-06-25T20:43:38Z")
Gotta love the offenderatti (not). Literally any random word or phrase might set them off. I’ve heard people claim that the word “picnic” is racist, because… uhhh… I guess the syllable “nic” at the end reminds them of “nig,” as in _niggar_. I dunno; that’s the best I can do to make sense of their inane logic. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/31 "2015-06-25T21:55:40Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > Ye gods. How can this question even be asked? If you don’t mean an ethnic or racist insult, then it isn’t racist! If someone \*chooses \*to be offended where no offense is meant, well, fuck 'em! I see your point… > [@Mangetout](#): > > Well, there are terms whose racist use is so entrenched that they can’t really be used innocently any more (excepting some specific contexts where they are used internally to the target group). But **Mangetout** sees mine. > [@Mangetout](#): > > But toe rag isn’t one of them anyway. And this is the key takeaway from the thread. I believe the principle is correct, but the specific instance fails as an example. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Yeah, OP, you really should have asked your correspondent in what sense “toe rag” is supposed to be racist. > > Also, I always thought “toe rag” referred to a rag that someone with disgusting, smelly feet would keep on hand to wipe the gunk out from between his toes. I actually did engage my companion in a discussion, and we both ended up agreeing that we didn’t know for sure. That’s why I came here, to a higher source of knowledge and wisdom. And, yeah, I thought it came from a bandage over a messy, stinky, gunky blister or boil or abscess, rather than just a footwear substitute. > [@HeXen](#): > > You can use any word or make up your own and simply use it in a racist or insulting context so what difference does it matter. That’s certainly true. “Dog whistles” and code-words and the like are not uncommon. But for them to be effective, the usage has to be known by the listener, and that means it’s just as likely to be known by those of us who would prefer not to be associated with such games. That’s why this one bothered me enough to ask about: I had no idea the word might be racist, and it alarmed me that I might have stepped on a punji-stake without knowing it. > [@Diceman](#): > > Gotta love the offenderatti (not). Literally any random word or phrase might set them off. I’ve heard people claim that the word “picnic” is racist, because… uhhh… I guess the syllable “nic” at the end reminds them of “nig,” as in _niggar_. I dunno; that’s the best I can do to make sense of their inane logic. That one, at least, I’ve heard of. [Here’s a site that explores it a little](http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pic1.htm), and concludes, nope, not racist in origin. It could easily happen that someone would use the word “picnic,” someone else would take offense on the ill-informed basis of this urban legend…and that’s exactly the situation I was in! The best we can do is fight ignorance. Thank’ee, everyone! ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/32 "2015-06-26T00:12:11Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Is it possible they confused toe-rag with do-rag (which _still_ wouldn’t be racist, but does have some racial and gangster _connotations_, [as the NFL ban shows](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-04-03/features/0104030012_1_uniform-code-rags-ban)) Help me fight some of my ignorance. I always thought “do-rag” was pronounced as “doo-rag”, not “doh-rag”. Of course, up until I was 17 or so, I thought the car’s name was pronounced “Por-see-chee”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/33 "2015-06-26T07:51:08Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Help me fight some of my ignorance. I always thought “do-rag” was pronounced as “doo-rag”, not “doh-rag”. It is. It’s a rag for your [hair]do. Doesn’t preclude some confusion, especially in some dialects (pen/pin homophony amuses me greatly, for instance.) Although apparently that wasn’t the case here. > [@](#): > > Of course, up until I was 17 or so, I thought the car’s name was pronounced “Por-see-chee”. I hope you then learned the correct pronunciation, and not that “porsh” horror. ---
**Author:** ![Arch\_Trout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@Arch\_Trout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arch_Trout)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/34 "2015-06-26T11:32:06Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Our culture has “evolved” to the point where all insults are racist. > > It’s like the word stupid. It starts with “stu” which is like the royal house of Stuart which once ruled England. So it’s clearly a racist insult against white people. The British represent colonial domination over minorities and therefore their flag should be banned. > > Am I missing anything? You’re mising a proper understanding of the House of Stuart vis a vis Scotland, England, and Great Britain…so there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/35 "2015-06-26T11:43:05Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > Ye gods. How can this question even be asked? If you don’t mean an ethnic or racist insult, then it isn’t racist! If someone \*chooses \*to be offended where no offense is meant, well, fuck 'em! Whether a term is racist or not doesn’t turn on the intention of the person uttering it, but on the generally understood meaning of the term. (Otherwise, I could insist that ‘cat’ means ‘dog’ when I say it…) ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/36 "2015-06-26T14:27:38Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > No it aint. Chimps are apes, not monkeys. 😉 What if this particular simian \*self-identifies \*as a monkey? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/37 "2015-06-26T14:45:58Z")
I’d have to hear something about how he has struggled all his life against his apeishness. Does he sport a fake tail of some sort? If he doesn’t even care enough to tie a friggin’ rope around his waist with the end dragging behind, I’m going to look askance at his purported claim of monkeytudeness. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/38 "2015-06-26T14:54:40Z")
That’s downright silly. ‘Toe-rag’ has absolutely no connotations of race, ethnicity, sex, gender, sexual orientation, national origin, ability or disability, or anything else except toeraghood. What on earth did your correspondent think it alluded to? And how on earth did he think it made sense to call something ‘racist’ without even having an idea of what race might be in question, or how the term might be an allusion to that race? ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/39 "2015-06-26T15:18:06Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > That one, at least, I’ve heard of. [Here’s a site that explores it a little](http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pic1.htm), and concludes, nope, not racist in origin. > > It could easily happen that someone would use the word “picnic,” someone else would take offense on the ill-informed basis of this urban legend…and that’s exactly the situation I was in! The best we can do is fight ignorance. > > Thank’ee, everyone! I had never heard of this until several years ago when an ex-GF related a story that happened to her mother. She sent out an email at work about making plans for the annual company picnic and was informed by some black co-workers that she shouldn’t use the word “picnic” because of its racist origin. The “pick a nigger” false etymology was cited. Snopes page also has some info: > **[Did the Word 'Picnic' Originate with Lynchings?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/picnic-origin/)** > > Specious etymologies seem to be all the rage of late, and a dubious claim about the origin of the word 'picnic' fits that trend. ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423/40 "2015-06-26T15:48:56Z")
> [@Accidental\_Martyr](#): > > I had never heard of this until several years ago when an ex-GF related a story that happened to her mother. She sent out an email at work about making plans for the annual company picnic and was informed by some black co-workers that she shouldn’t use the word “picnic” because of its racist origin. The “pick a nigger” false etymology was cited. Snopes page also has some info: > [Did the Word 'Picnic' Originate with Lynchings? | Snopes.com](http://www.snopes.com/language/offense/picnic.asp) I wonder whether the ludicrous thing about “picnic” ‘s alleged racial-atrocity derivation might owe its origin, bizarrely, to the Yogi Bear cartoons – in which Yogi and his Jellystone Park chums revel in making off with what they call the tourists’ “pic-a-nic” baskets. So far as I’m aware, “picnic” had previously been a strictly two-syllable word: hard, I would have thought, for even the most dedicated false-etymologiser to contort into anything about choosing a minority member to abuse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-toe-rag-racist-ethnicist/723423.md?page=3)