And the hero that sacrafices his life to save the kingdom is clearly of christian origin. Yeah.
Intersting link though, btw, thanks.
I also got confused and mixed up my religions. The audio link mentioned the Anglican religion, and I attributed it to Tolkien when in fact it was C.S Lewis that was Anglican.
“And the hero that sacrafices his life to save the kingdom is clearly of christian origin.”
No it isn’t, and no one ever said that it was. It shows up in far more ancient myths than Christianity. It is another of the universal devices used in all tragic hero myths.
The point is that you are claiming that Tolkein utilised that device under influence from Wagner. Since Tolkein admits that the work was influenced by the Gospels and denies that it was influenced by Wagner your claim makes no sense even if we accept that the device was borrowed. You are rejecting the most logical explanation and the one supported by the author and embracing the illogical cause that is specifically denied by the author.
Nothing to add to the debate, just a nitpick, but isn’t “round ring” rather redundant?
Yes, and it’s meant to be.
I doubt that there was no effect or influence from Wagner in the same way that there would be no effect or influence from Shakespeare. I mean, if you think about it, how often does Shakespeare pop up in English (language, not just country) literature? While the Ring Cycle may not have the same universal presence, many people know of it and at least the basic ideas. What I think I’m trying to say is that there might be a slight unconscious effect from Wagner in the same way there could be an effect from Shakespeare or Beowulf or any other famous and influential piece of literature, but that it’s definitely reasonable to agree with the explanation from the author, that there was no overt effect.
Of course, Tolkien did borrow from the Nordic and Germanic myths to at least some degree. For example, take a look at all the dwarf names in The Hobbit, then go look up a decent Norse mythology book. You’ll see just about complete overlap, though perhaps some spelling or sound changes.
Otherwise, I agree with Blake.
A shill for George Bernard Shaw.
Dammit.
A shill for GBS.
The climactic scene on Mt Doom is overtly influenced by Christianity. That whole ‘human (hobbit) effort comes up short but God’s (Eru’s) grace saves the day’ thing, you know? I’m not particularly familiar with Nordic or Germanic myths, but how often are they blatantly Pauline* like this? Not often, would be my WAG.
*Well, not exactly Pauline, or at least, not in the sense in which Paul is understood by Protestants. Tolkien’s Catholicism shows here, as Frodo is granted grace largely because of the mercy he has shown in the past (to Gollum, mostly). Or so says the author in his letters.