# Is "Top Secret" the highest level clearance you can get? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 31, 2003, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628 "2003-10-31T12:42:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/61 "2016-03-01T19:30:06Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > Does the POTUS have the same instant access to (the plethora) of information Chelsea Manning had, and by that, I mean: without having to ask an underling first? In other words: When Barack Obama logs on to his computer (he does have one in his Oval Office, does he?), does he have immediate access to informations of a certain secrecy level (like any measly E2 serving in an intelligence unit)? Almost certainly not. Assuming the President did have a SIPRNET or JWICs terminal in his office, the information is divided up into dozens of subordinate servers, websites, and storage servers, not all of which talk to each other. Many of these include unit sharepoints that are restricted access. I would be stunned if any one person had access to every single database. There is not one single monolithic server that houses all of the classified internet. Second Point: Even if the President did, hypothetically, have a special program on his computer that allowed him access to all databases everywhere, as a practical matter this would not be desirable. It’s not the President’s job to personally scrutinize raw data. There are many, many subject matter experts that do this work and then offer the President their summaries and analysis. The Bush Administration offers us an excellent example of what happens when senior leaders are allowed to view the raw data without the input of analysts… It didn’t exactly work out very well. Third Point: For many years, the CIA operated under a policy called “plausible deniability.” When I first heard this I thought it was a funny joke, but it is, or was, quite real. That is, the CIA deliberately avoided reporting their activity to the President so that he could honestly deny knowledge of a certain activity if things went badly. It evolved into a euphemism for letting the CIA run wild and make its own decisions independent of any restraint or oversight. This mentality led directly to various Congressional investigations throughout the 70’s. So while the President does have the right to know all the information, there is no guarantee that an unethical government employee might not willfully conceal their information from him. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/62 "2016-03-01T19:58:00Z")
This thread may also be of interest, about an official CIA history of the briefings given to presidential candidates over the years: [How the CIA has briefed candidates and Presidents over the years - Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=777707) ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/63 "2016-03-01T20:15:46Z")
> [@aerodave](#): > > I work for the Government, and take it from me: TS is as high as it gets. However, there are certain “Special Access Program” and “Sensitive Compartmented Information” levels that are extra layers of security on top of the TS clearance. The names of the clearances themselves are often deemed sensitive information, which may corroborate what **Who\_me?** said above. > > These SCIs and SAPs give a certain amount of exclusivity to the information generated by a given project. In other words, you need more than just a regular TS to get it. This has always struck me as redundant, since the two things a person needs to have acces to classified information are proper clearance and need-to-know. Even if you have the same clearance as me, I can’t share the classified info with you unless you have a demonstrated and provable need to know. I guess the special clearances just ad a more enforceable aspect to it. Need-to-know cna be subjective, proper clearance isn’t. > > There is a level (not sure if it’s an SCI or an SAP) called “Yankee White.” This classification is reserved for only the most sensitive info. One of the very few people that has this clearance, as far as I am aware, is the military officer who carries and guards the “football” that contains the nuclear launch codes. They are always at the President’s side, or at least really close by. This clearance requires a background check of unbelieveable depth, and means that you can never have done anything wrong in your entire life…ever. You can’t have really any foreign contacts…hell, you can never have eaten Mexican food. It’s a hell of a lot more severe even than what it takes to get a TS. > Here’s a site that has a lot of info on levels of clearance and how they’re granted: [Security Clearance Information and Jobs - Security Clearance Overview](http://www.taonline.com/securityclearances/scdetails.asp) Yankee White is not a clearance it’s an automatic need to know for any classified information given only to folks who work at the whitehouse. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/64 "2016-03-01T23:20:48Z")
“Special Access” was also a term used in the Canadian Forces when I was in, but, again, it was sort of parcelled onto Top Secret. You were Top Secret Special Access, or just TSSA. Not “Special Access.” As a matter of logic there is no need for a security clearance above Top Secret. The term “Top Secret” is, by definition, information that if disclosed could cause immediate, serious danger to national security. It’s a term of art that means that specific concept. You can’t really get more secret than that. Of course some Top Secret things are indisputably more important than others, but how you prevent them from dissemination is not by having a Super Secret level, it’s by restricting how widely the secret is disseminated. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/65 "2016-03-01T23:39:57Z")
Basically think of a room full of file drawer cabinets. Each drawer has a separate key. Your TS clearance got you in the room but there are very few things in the room that aren’t in the locked drawers. Each drawer has an owner and that owner defines the circumstances which a person can open their drawer. Each drawer requires a separate NDA and briefing with possible other requirements such as a polygraph or an interview. Then you get a key to a particular drawer. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/66 "2016-03-02T16:41:28Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The term “Top Secret” is, by definition, information that if disclosed could cause immediate, serious danger to national security. The definition is “Information which, if disclosed, would cause \*Exceptionally Grave Damage \*to the national security of the United States” ---
**Author:** ![philipem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc79bd/32.png) [@philipem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/philipem)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/67 "2016-07-19T08:23:28Z")
So many responses in this thread I apologize if I am repeating. There are three levels of classification which are based on the IMPORTANCE or IMPACT disclosure of the information may have. I have forgotten the exact definitions in the past forty some years but Top Secret information is vital info that if revealed could presumably cause the greatest harm to the nation. Secret and Confidential are the others in descending order. Certain types of information is much more carefully monitored and controlled. Among these are CRYPTO which word applies to all information related to codes, coding, coding methods, coding equipment. The reason this information is so designated is because if CRYPTO is compromised more than one secret or one type of secret may be compromised. Many messages can be compromised. I was a Crypto systems technician and normally didn’t deal with the actual information sent but that meant I had to had the clearances to deal with information to be found wherever the equipment I might access would be found. Codewords are many. SCI means the information is restricted, as all information is, on a need to know basis, with the proviso that the particular codeword indicates something more is involved. For example, some codewords, Ultra has been mentioned, is designed to convey both the source of the information so that the source can be protected – and the material as well so that it is not released to anyone not authorize to receive Ultra information. And since the existence of the Ultra information would compromise the whole Ultra (Enigma decoding) program that word itself was probably classified. Finally by knowing that the information is ULTRA the user may have a better handle on how reliable the information is. Intelligence that you cannot depend on is useless. So many codewords are used to protect a source and to allow evaluation of the information from that source. I had access to SCI information of several sorts. When i was “read into” one program – explained to me the program and given access to it and told of the special restrictions on the information – I was handed a small folded card and opened it to read the Code Word. It was never stated out loud. It was itself a secret that could not be divulged beyond another person who had access to that information. I think it is in fact in the common domain now but still I won’t say what it was/is just in case. And more. Special markings are used to indicate information or physical security that gets extra protection. For example I worked in nuclear missile silos and command posts at one point, and had to be cleared under the Human Reliability and Personnel Reliability Programs which meant among other things my medical records had special markings to indicate to medical personnel they were obliged to report anything that suggested I was no longer reliable. These marking don’t apply to the information but to the program as a whole but in order to go to the areas restricted I needed security clearances, etc. Because of some of the SCI I had access to I was not permitted for example to take commercial aircraft that went over a Communist Nation nor travel to certain other areas on leave. I was transferred to Turkey at one point but I was not allowed to take the usual air route to Istanbul because it went over Yugoslavia. I had to fly to Rome first and take a direct flight to Istanbul. Now all the equipment I worked on is no longer secret and there are web pages describing it and photos of the equipment, etc. all legally released there’s a museum in fact and you can see it online. So I can tell you that when the Pueblo was seized the Crypto equipment was compromised (seized) and after a few years the NSA decided that the KG-13 system needed to be physically changed to ensure its security. Without the codes themselves in theory the equipment was not enough to compromise the info transmitted but if you know enough it might be possible to break the codes. I actually surmise that they knew or believed the codes had been broken on an ongoing basis which is not supposed to be possible. And in fact they were right, many of our codes were compromised and the Soviets could read all of our traffic. I tell this story in part to show how many different security classifications and programs work and interact. So at any rate on one particular day I had to take a helicopter to move between two missile alternate command posts at silos to modify the KG-13s at those sites as result of the concern they had been compromised, A new circuit board was installed to change the way in which the system encoded and decoded information. That change had to be made at a specific time for each post and we couldn’t drive between them in time. There were not enough of us to send two teams out. That was Top Secret Crypto information at the time and I had to explain to the colonel who was pissed that HE couldn’t get a chopper that I couldn’t tell him why I did get one. Nor could I tell the missile crews what we were going to do, even though they had access to the machines and codes. And I had to take another tech with me because the machines are located in NO LONE ZONES which is an area where no one can go without a companion because it relates to the launch of nuclear weapons. I had clearance for that too. The irony of it all is that John Walker of the US Navy was giving ever bit of Crypto he could get his hands on to the Soviets and the surely had the new circuit board design not long after – and possibly before – I did that installation. And in fact he compromised mostly Navy codes with that but indeed he may have compromised pretty much everything sent on the major systems KW26, KW7, KY3, KG13 and others. Which is why the spy game makes most of this meaningless. BUT it also lets me tell you that for the SCI information different codes were used for any circuit that carried that info and Walker probably didn’t have access to that program so he probably could not give away the Crypto codes for those particular circuits. So the SCI may not have been compromised. At least, not that way. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/68 "2016-07-19T12:20:01Z")
> [@Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](#): > > I’ll never forget walking into a Network Operations Center (a TS facility) and having someone shout, “UNCLEARED IN THE NOC!” Like I was some commoner off the street or something. While I was waiting for my final clearance, I was given low-level stuff to do. When I stepped into the main office, I took to shouting, “UNCLEAN, UNCLEAN!” ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/69 "2016-07-19T14:40:40Z")
We let the Soviets have our KW-26’s … what a worthless piece of shit it was … screwed them damn commies up good hahahaha ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/70 "2016-07-19T17:25:54Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > While I was waiting for my final clearance, I was given low-level stuff to do. When I stepped into the main office, I took to shouting, “UNCLEAN, UNCLEAN!” Did they give you a bell to ring? ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/71 "2016-07-19T17:31:30Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Did they give you a bell to ring? My NCOIC kept asking permission to let us pack .38’s … it was a “deadly force allowed” area after all. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/72 "2016-07-19T18:09:52Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Did they give you a bell to ring? We asked for one, but… ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/73 "2016-07-19T18:10:50Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > The government is very paranoid about secret information, to the point that any secret information copied on a photocopier must be followed by three blank copies so that no trace of the information remains on the imaging drum and fuser in the machine. Which does no good because the newer copiers record everything on internal hard drives. When we recently decommissioned several copiers so they could be donated to a non-profit, or sold for scrap, we had to have a technician come in first and remove the hard drives. ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/74 "2016-07-19T19:53:57Z")
> [@Truth\_Seeker](#): > > Yes, there is a higher classification than Top Secret but the U.S. government ruthlessly supresses anyone who reveals its exi It’s kinda cool that this was the last post to this thread for over a decade. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/75 "2016-07-19T23:04:46Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Which does no good because the newer copiers record everything on internal hard drives. When we recently decommissioned several copiers so they could be donated to a non-profit, or sold for scrap, we had to have a technician come in first and remove the hard drives. I work in government too and it’s the same thing. I have to wait for a tech together scheduled to come out and do it although I could easily do it myself if I want. I’ve been fixing and building computers for years, I can handle taking out a drive. But instead it takes months, then the guy arrives, I escort him to where I’m storing the copier, he takes out the drive, then hands it to me. From then on I’m responsible for its security until I can finally get rid of it. It’s so redundant but it’s the government. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/76 "2016-07-20T03:01:07Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > While I was waiting for my final clearance, I was given low-level stuff to do. When I stepped into the main office, I took to shouting, “UNCLEAN, UNCLEAN!” I forget where or when I read this, but I read an article by an author who got permission to interview the people who design nuclear weapons. Obviously they and he were careful to discuss only non-technical aspects. One story is memorable. While visiting Lawrence Livermore, he was escorted to the office of the head of the group of people who analyzed what the US knew about the Soviet nuclear weapons. A highly sensitive subject even for this topic. To get to the office he had to walk through the room where the analysts worked. His escort had to unlock the door, shout UNCLEARED VISITOR and wait for everyone in the room to pull down the covers on their roll-top desks. Then the escort walked the visitor through the room while carrying a pole with a flashing light on it. The head of the office apologized to the writer for the commotion but said those were the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/77 "2016-07-20T03:11:31Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > We asked for one, but… Maybe you had no Need to Clang. ---
**Author:** ![teriusj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@teriusj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teriusj)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628/78 "2018-10-27T04:25:12Z")
> [@insider](#): > > I have no direct evidence of other levels of intelligence clearance but I do remember hearing about Ultra, Umbra, and Magic and Majestic. Does anyone know if the former terms are used in the intelligence business? I heard Magic Clearance is the highest level for being involved with aliens from other planets. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-top-secret-the-highest-level-clearance-you-can-get/210628.md?page=3)