# Is touching co-workers OK? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424 "2019-05-03T15:42:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/301 "2019-05-07T02:51:08Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Why do you have to make such a song and dance out of calling them “hypersensitive” “freaks” and so forth, and demanding that they must state their preferences up front in order to qualify for an exemption from your default handsiness? This is starting to come across like the gaslighting techniques of creepers and sexists who try to intimidate and humiliate their targets into not objecting to their behavior. I’m not a touchy person at work but I wouldn’t think twice about tapping a coworker on their forearm to get their attention at a meeting. I’d be willing to tap the forearm of an intern, a coworker, my manager, my director, or even my vice president. It would not cross my mind that any one of them would find such behavior offensive. If you find such behavior offensive I think you’re an outlier. But that’s okay. We all have our hangups and I respect your right to avoid being touched in any context that makes you feel uncomfortable. If you asked me to avoid touching you I would apologize and never do it again. But I wouldn’t feel the least bit bad because I didn’t do anything unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/302 "2019-05-07T02:56:49Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > But I wouldn’t feel the least bit bad because I didn’t do anything unreasonable. It seems to me that you are relying on YOUR definition of unreasonable, and not considering what other people consider unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/303 "2019-05-07T03:29:24Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > It seems to me that you are relying on YOUR definition of unreasonable, and not considering what other people consider unreasonable. I’m taking your point of view into consideration but I’m weighing it against nearly two decades of what I’ve observed in the workplace as well as listening to employee relations problems over the last four of those that included bullying and sexual harassment. Complaints about inappropriate physical contact usually revolve around frequent and/or prolonged contact. Not a tap on the shoulder. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/304 "2019-05-07T03:57:39Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I’m taking your point of view into consideration but I’m weighing it against nearly two decades of what I’ve observed in the workplace as well as listening to employee relations problems over the last four of those that included bullying and sexual harassment. Complaints about inappropriate physical contact usually revolve around frequent and/or prolonged contact. Not a tap on the shoulder. Perhaps that’s because people know if they speak up about being touched in a way that to them is inappropriate, they will be labeled an “outlier” or “overly sensitive” or other such degrading terms? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/305 "2019-05-07T04:02:44Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Perhaps that’s because people know if they speak up about being touched in a way that to them is inappropriate, they will be labeled an “outlier” or “overly sensitive” or other such degrading terms? Probably not. I suspect it’s because the number of people who would be offended by an innocuous tap on the shoulder or forearm are a significant minority. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/306 "2019-05-07T04:15:59Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Probably not. I suspect it’s because the number of people who would be offended by an innocuous tap on the shoulder or forearm are a significant minority. Perhaps. And since we definitely shouldn’t listen to the feelings of a minority, those feelings can be appropriately discounted in our day-to-day activities. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/307 "2019-05-07T04:24:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > \*\*Because HR is not your friend. \*\* > > It will go down as a black mark for him, and\* you \*the reportee. It, even tho perfectly innocent and one time, could cost him (and you) a promotion. > > Let me make this clear, we’re talking about a light shoulder touch, a wrist or hand touch, not a pussy or ass grab. Absolutely anything sexual or out of line should be reported. But many people have no issue at all with being lightly touched in a innocent and non-sexual manner, and in fact they appreciate it. So is not telling HR something you owe yourself or something you owe the toucher? If HR punishes both of you (which would be unwise on their part, as it’s generally illegal to retaliate against someone for reporting sexual harassment or discrimination even if the underlying complaint was frivolous), it might still be worth your while to take the hit in order to protect others from being touched. Again, if everyone reports everything that makes them uncomfortable, HR will have a pretty easy time finding the common denominator, whether that’s the toucher or the complainer. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Here is a good situation which will explain- you have arachnophobia. It’s Halloween, and as is customary, Susan is decorating the office. Some of the decorations include webbing with little plastic spiders and a big rubber spider at the corner of a cube. > > Situation #1. You march into HR, and inform them you have arachnophobia, and Susans decorations are making you uncomfortable and they should punish her. They ask you if you ever mentioned this to Susan (or anyone), you say NO, and they mark you down as a idiot troublemaker- you will never get a promotion again, and will be the first to be laid off. > > #2. You do mention it to Susan , and she sez “Oh, I am _so_ sorry, I didn’t know!” and takes them down. > > #3, as above but Dave the office joker hears this, and fills your cube with spiders, webs and a big rubber one that falls from the ceiling on you. You complain to HR. They fire his stupid ass. Or, #1a, you walk into HR like a civilian and inform them that you have arachnophobia and Susan’s decorations are making you uncomfortable and ask for their help. They ask if you ever mentioned this to Susan (or anyone) and you say no, you also feel uncomfortable revealing this phobia because, at your last job, you asked people to put away the rubber spiders because of your phobia, and a co-worker thought it would be funny to drop one on your head. HR talks to Susan and explains that someone in the workplace has a phobia and asks/tells her to get rid of the rubber spiders. Susan compiles, no one gets fired, and since neither she nor Dave ever have to know it was you, you avoid getting another rubber spider dropped on your head. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/308 "2019-05-07T05:26:46Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Perhaps. And since we definitely shouldn’t listen to the feelings of a minority, those feelings can be appropriately discounted in our day-to-day activities. Ok, then how would you feel if a co-worker complained to HR you either made eye contact or spoke to them (first). Is it Ok for the co-worker to complain to HR about you making eye contact? How about that calendar of kittens? where does it stop? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/309 "2019-05-07T06:14:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Ok, then how would you feel if a co-worker complained to HR you either made eye contact or spoke to them (first). > > Is it Ok for the co-worker to complain to HR about you making eye contact? > > How about that calendar of kittens? > > where does it stop? In your world, where could it possibly start? ---
**Author:** ![SOJA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SOJA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SOJA)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/310 "2019-05-07T06:57:49Z")
I’m not a touchy person. I don’t like touchy people. I don’t like sharing or hearing people’s feelings. I definitely don’t want to be around people who are crying and making a scene. I’m fairly social, but to say I give a shit about anyone I work with would be a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/311 "2019-05-07T11:40:13Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Why do you have to make such a song and dance out of calling them “hypersensitive” “freaks” and so forth, and demanding that they must state their preferences up front in order to qualify for an exemption from your default handsiness? Setting the pejorative “handsiness” aside, I agree. DrDeth and others are engaging in contemptible bullshit when they namecall you and imply that you’ve got some sort of mental disorder. Which is why this is ironic: > [@](#): > > This is starting to come across like the gaslighting techniques of creepers and sexists who try to intimidate and humiliate their targets into not objecting to their behavior. Your implied namecalling here is also contemptible bullshit. You’re not just implying that I’m a creeper and sexist, you’re implying that about my co-worker who, at a meeting last night, tapped me on the shoulder to ask me to tap another co-worker on the shoulder so the first one could get the second one’s attention without either interrupting the speaker, leaning across my lap, or standing up in the middle of the meeting to stand in front of the second one. She wasn’t a creeper, ferchrissakes. This isn’t gaslighting. It ain’t gaslighting to disagree with you on this subject. > [@](#): > > In fact, being pleasant and nice to your co-workers without touching them is so easy that I’m seriously starting to wonder about the bona fides of some of the people who are so vehemently opposed to a default keep-your-hands-to-yourself workplace policy. If you need to assume that I’m arguing in bad faith, then I guess we’re done. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/312 "2019-05-07T11:52:47Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Perhaps. And since we definitely shouldn’t listen to the feelings of a minority, those feelings can be appropriately discounted in our day-to-day activities. I don’t know where you’re getting this impression. I have stated several times in this thread that I respect your right not to be touched which you should note is good evidence that I am listening to you and taking your feelings into account. If someone continued to make light physical contact even after knowing it was unwanted I would come down on them pretty hard starting with a written warning at minimum. But assuming all parties are acting in good faith, I’m not going to punish someone for tapping you on the shoulder during a meeting to get your attention. You’re not wrong for not wanting to be touched but he wasn’t wrong for tapping you on the shoulder either. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/313 "2019-05-07T12:25:20Z")
Just to get a sense of where Dopers fall on this issue, I posted [a poll in IMHO](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=875159). Not presuming it is anything approaching scientific. Just thought it might be interesting. I tried to word it as fairly as I could. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/314 "2019-05-07T12:36:38Z")
In the end, it comes down to this: It’s not about what is philosophically right or wrong, or the motivation behind the act, it’s about individuals having the right to define what is and what is not acceptable to them in terms of personal interaction. Everything else is irrelevant. “Jasmine, so sorry to interrupt, but we’re out of time.” Easy-peasy! Unless I’m deaf, why does someone have to make physical contact? Telling people that they are being unreasonable because the motivation behind the act was innocent and the act itself innocent is completely missing the point. The point is that every individual has a right to a defined personal space and a code of personal interaction. Virtually all the arguments defending the action as innocent and therefore okay are made irrelevant by that one basic right. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/315 "2019-05-07T12:38:06Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Just to get a sense of where Dopers fall on this issue, I posted [a poll in IMHO](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=875159). > > Not presuming it is anything approaching scientific. Just thought it might be interesting. I tried to word it as fairly as I could. Your poll is crap. The choices are basically no touching whatsoever, and pretty much any touching. > [@](#): > > At issue can be ANY physical contact: an all out hug, an ass grab, or a tap on someone’s shoulder or wrist to get their attention, or anything else along that continuum. and > [@](#): > > Just to be clear, if you say NO, then you are saying it is NEVER appropriate to tap a co-worker on the shoulder/arm to get their attention, express sympathy, etc. All or nothing is the best you could come up with? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/316 "2019-05-07T12:44:33Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > “Jasmine, so sorry to interrupt, but we’re out of time.” Easy-peasy! Unless I’m deaf, why does someone have to make physical contact? I occasionally interact with a woman who is deaf. I do not know ASL, so I always try to have paper/pen handy so we can communicate. If I need to get her attention I wave my hand in her field of view. No contact required. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/317 "2019-05-07T13:31:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Your poll is crap. The choices are basically no touching whatsoever, and pretty much any touching. and > > All or nothing is the best you could come up with? :rolleyes: Yes. I’ve not participated in these threads, but the way social questions are presented as strictly binary these days is absurd. A friendly touch on the arm isn’t always out of place, though it might be slighty flirtatious in some contexts. But today it seems to be the equivalent of fondling a fanny, or grabbing a pussy. I see this over and over in today’s America (which I see in large part through the SDMB lens). As another example, it’s OK to denounce corporations, or even rich WASPs, for funding political campaigns but to hint that a Jew might have donated to a political campaign will bring shrieks of outrage. Are shades of gray no longer perceptible? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/318 "2019-05-07T13:48:43Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Yes. I’ve not participated in these threads, but the way social questions are presented as strictly binary these days is absurd. I asked to have the poll closed. I had no expectation that my question whether ANY contact was EVER appropriate would be interpreted as approving of ALL contact in ALL instances. Does not strike me as requiring a stretch to understand that someone voting YES - allowing an occasional tap on the wrist shoulder, or maybe even a consoling arm on the shoulder, does not mean they support raping co-workers. And I felt anything other than a binary poll would quickly lead down the rabbithole of trying to identify every possible variation/exception. Exclude handshakes. But what about impending danger? Does it make a difference if you touch clothing or bare skin? How about the sexual identity of the parties? Their familiarity with each other? … Whether the shortcomings of the poll reflect my biases and incompetence in phrasing the question, or the agendas of those responding, I’ve quickly realized my efforts served no useful purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/319 "2019-05-07T13:55:06Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Are shades of gray no longer perceptible? Only to some of us. Threads like this remind me as to why I chose a career in outside sales. I only had to deal with intra-office pettiness a few hours a week at most. Which leads me to a related hypothetical. Suppose the woman was in a meeting with a client and the client lightly touched her wrist to let her know time was running short. And suppose that was a major client, one that made up a double digit percentage of the company’s business. How do you think HR and the company management should react in that situation? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/320 "2019-05-07T14:11:32Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Only to some of us. > > Threads like this remind me as to why I chose a career in outside sales. I only had to deal with intra-office pettiness a few hours a week at most. > > Which leads me to a related hypothetical. Suppose the woman was in a meeting with a client and the client lightly touched her wrist to let her know time was running short. And suppose that was a major client, one that made up a double digit percentage of the company’s business. How do you think HR and the company management should react in that situation? They would probably make note of the incident, then wait to see if a pattern emerges when said client meets with other company personnel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424.md?page=17)