# Is touching co-workers OK? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424 "2019-05-03T15:42:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/141 "2019-05-04T03:19:33Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I don’t hug them. We hug each other–it’s a mutual thing, with lots of opportunities for either person to pull back–because even someone who might want a hug one day might not on another. As an aside from this discussion, I can’t believe that you actually hug people on a daily basis at your work. At the risk of sounding sexist, maybe that’s just a woman thing. I would never go into my work and hug other male or female colleagues. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/142 "2019-05-04T03:33:49Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I get that that’s strange to you. Do you get that it’s equally strange to me–and to the other third grade teacher I talked with–that anyone would try to establish a blanket ban on touching in the workplace? Context matters. I very much doubt that anyone’s trying to establish a blanket ban on, say, nurses or doctors or health care aides touching their patients in the workplace. It’s part of the job. And I think it’s also a normal part of the job for teachers and other caretakers of small children to touch those children who signal, clearly, that they want to be touched. (And to keep their hands off any who don’t want to be touched, unless necessary for the safety of the child.) But I don’t think any of that applies to adults having a meeting in a conference room. Or to most people on most sorts of jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/143 "2019-05-04T03:41:38Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I very much doubt that anyone’s trying to establish a blanket ban on, say, nurses or doctors or health care aides touching their patients in the workplace. It’s part of the job. Weird but maybe relevant anecdote: I went to my Urgent Care facility one day because I had a sore throat. And typically with a sore throat, they take a throat swab. And sometimes when they do that, I throw up. So normally, I’m ready to push the PA’s hands away if I’m close to throwing up. The last time I went, I had my hands ready, and the PA said “What are you doing?” And I explained to her that I might have to grab her hands to stop myself from throwing up. And she wasn’t too thrilled with that, and made me sit on my hands so I wouldn’t grab her to keep from throwing up. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/144 "2019-05-04T04:06:22Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > OMG, why does his intention make a fucking bit of difference? What difference does it make if he “meant” to be reassuring or if he “meant” it to mean “shut the fuck up” or if he “meant” it to be a purposeful transgressing of her bodily autonomy? Another poster suggested the the touch was to control her behavior. It could have been intended as a friendly gesture to assure her that he wasn’t being dismissive by telling her they didn’t have time to listen to her. So obviously intent seems to matter to some people. And, yes, intent matters. It’s not the only thing that matter nor is it necessarily the most important thing that matters. But it matters. So does context and past behavior. > [@](#): > > DON’T TOUCH PEOPLE WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION. Why is this so hard to understand? Keep your hands to yourself. Don’t touch. A person’s body belongs to them, not to you and you have no inherent right to touch them. I respect your right not to be touched if you don’t want to be touched. If you were in Sally’s position what consequences should Mr. McFeely suffer for touching you lightly on the wrist? > [@](#): > > Seriously, what if you have a male friend whose idea of friendly contact is to reach down and touch the head of your penis through your pants? Every time you run into this guy he touches your penis. Reductio ad absurdum arguments cannot be taken seriously. You’re not arguing in good faith. > [@](#): > > And here’s the big part–YOU don’t get to decide that someone else is “too sensitive” or “taking things the wrong way.” Your opinion is irrelevant and also unwelcome unless you’ve been ASKED for it. Just like touches. No invite, not needed, not appreciated. I think you missed parts of this conversation where I pretty much said this. You might want to go back and read the thread before taking a single post out of context. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/145 "2019-05-04T04:11:39Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sure it’s similar. How about this? Go to your job tomorrow and tell this joke: > > “What do you tell a woman with two black eyes? Nothing! You’ve already told her twice!” > > See how it goes over. Man, what the fuck? Are you really going to escalate in a totally unreasonable way like that? Lemme break this down, using my own words: humor, like touch, can absolutely go horribly wrong. What you offered is an example of how humor can go horribly wrong, the joke equivalent of groping someone. But just because there are shitty-ass jokes that should never be told in the workplace doesn’t mean a blanket ban on jokes is appropriate. It means a ban on offensive jokes, jokes that make people uncomfortable, is appropriate. Some jokes are obviously inappropriate to any remotely-socialized adult, and if they tell them, it’s a first-time firing offense. Other jokes might not be inappropriate for most people, but for a few folks they are, and in those cases, the joke-teller ought to be sensitive to that problem, but also the joke-hearer needs to recognize that it’s not the same thing. And just because there are assault-type touches that should never be made in the workplace doesn’t mean a blanket ban on touches is appropriate. It means a ban on offensive touches, touches that make people uncomfortable, is appropriate. Some touches are obviously inappropriate to any remotely-socialized adult, and if they touch someone that way, it’s a first-time firing offense. Other touches might not be inappropriate for most people, but for a few folks they are, and in those cases, the toucher ought to be sensitive to that problem, but also the touchee needs to recognize that it’s not the same thing. Don’t fucking escalate with a shitty misunderstanding of the analogy, okay? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/146 "2019-05-04T04:18:45Z")
As others have said, slight non-sexual touching has been a mainstay of human experience for thousands of years across almost all cultures. A pat on the back, a fist bump, a handshake, a tap on the shoulder, an “atta boy” tap on the thigh, etc. have all been considered normal types of human interactions. Default rules of human interaction are not made for the most hypersensitive person. The hypersensitive person must deal with the rest of society. Because some people are extreme germaphobes, we do not mandate that public door handles are sterilized every hour. If you are that sensitive, then carry a handkerchief of a bottle of hand sanitizer. And in any interaction between two adults, the first step in any problem solving is to have a discussion with the person who offended you, except in the most egregious cases. If the neighbor kid breaks your window with his baseball, do you immediately sue or call the police? Or do you walk over and have a talk with the kid’s parents first? Sadly in modern society, more people are doing the first thing. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/147 "2019-05-04T04:22:24Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Another poster suggested the the touch was to control her behavior. It could have been intended as a friendly gesture to assure her that he wasn’t being dismissive by telling her they didn’t have time to listen to her. So obviously intent seems to matter to some people. > > And, yes, intent matters. It’s not the only thing that matter nor is it necessarily the most important thing that matters. But it matters. So does context and past behavior. And this is a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. Had the man interrupted Sally and said, “Sally, please finish up, we are over our allotted time” he might be raked over the coals for embarrassing her in front of the whole room and might be told that he should have tapped her on the wrist as a more subtle gesture. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/148 "2019-05-04T04:24:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It means a ban on offensive touches, touches that make people uncomfortable, is appropriate. The point is you only seem to want a ban on touches that YOU consider offensive. My point is, if you don’t touch anyone without their consent, then it’s a better for everyone. You have a friend that you know appreciates hugs? Hug away. You have a coworker that you don’t know? Keep your hands to yourself. Again, it’s not hard. It actually requires less work for you. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/149 "2019-05-04T04:26:42Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > And this is a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. Had the man interrupted Sally and said, “Sally, please finish up, we are over our allotted time” he might be raked over the coals for embarrassing her in front of the whole room and might be told that he should have tapped her on the wrist as a more subtle gesture. No, he actually wouldn’t be “raked over the coals” for that. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/150 "2019-05-04T04:31:29Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sure it’s similar. How about this? Go to your job tomorrow and tell this joke: > > “What do you tell a woman with two black eyes? Nothing! You’ve already told her twice!” > > See how it goes over. Maybe you don’t realize it but are illustrating his exact point. Some communications are inappropriate and some are appropriate. Verbal and non-verbal both. All communication can be misunderstood and the same message may be welcome by most and offensive to some. Jokes may be very inappropriate and offensive. And they can be an important tool in getting a message across or a concept sold. Some people may find any joking in the workplace to be inappropriate. Some people may find some joking in the workplace is part of natural communication. Do the facts that some believe the former and that some jokes are clearly inappropriate mean that one must always get consent before trying to be witty? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/151 "2019-05-04T04:39:06Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I, for one, \*don’t \*disagree with such a rule. And I’m pretty sure that we’re only months away from exactly that rule in any company big enough to have an HR department. Actually, I think we’re going to see a rule that says “no touching whatsoever, ever, under any circumstances.” You’d be wrong. I can confirm for you that this isn’t exactly a hot topic in HR forums, magazines, or seminars. Because tapping someone on the shoulder, the wrist, or other innocuous physical contact just isn’t a problem that comes up all that frequently. When I hear complaints about inappropriate touching it’s usually either more intimate touching (shoulder rub or something like that) or frequent contact. The closest conversations I’ve heard centered around hugging. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/152 "2019-05-04T07:00:08Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > … > I don’t really think that it’s asking for too much to expect employees to abide by elementary-school level conduct rules. “Billy, don’t touch Sally” “But it was just her wrist, why is she such a big baby” is just not a reasonable exchange in a professional environment, and I don’t think Sally has any obligation to take on the task of re-teaching grade school manners to Billy if he hasn’t learned them yet. … Is it unreasonable for HR to counsel the guy about third grade ‘no touching’ rules he doesn’t get, and in which direction - should they fire him on the spot, or should they tell Sally to shut up and accept his hand on her? I dunno about you, but in MY third grade, we touched a LOT. We’d wrestle around in the sandbox, chase each other around with “Boogers” , play Tag, do dances, and a whole lot of other things. And we had great glorious fun, and learned to like our fellow humans. And I am so sorry if you had a elementary school where no kid touched another kid. That sounds horrible. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/153 "2019-05-04T07:01:55Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I see. And if the person touched considers all parts of their body the same, they should just suck it up because it was “only a shoulder touch”? They can & should tell the other person “Sorry, I just don’t like being touched- at all.” But you dont get to take your odd phobias to HR and get another person in trouble for a normal human behavior. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/154 "2019-05-04T07:06:12Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > It probably won’t go down that way. Most people in HR aren’t going to view Sally as a trouble maker because she’s making valid complaint. Most people in HR aren’t going to put a black mark on touchy-McFeely’s record for something so innocuous unless there was a past history of such behavior he was warned about. HR might not be your friend but we’re usually not out to get you. Some people just aren’t comfortable confronting others on their own and it’s entirely appropriate to come to HR if they are more comfortable handling things that way. A Valid complaint?\* “Bob touched me lightly on the shoulder to get my attention, so fire his ass?”\* How the fuck is _your_ weird phobia (haphephobia) a valid complaint? Look, like talking to someone, light touching among people you know well is a normal human behavior. And there are also people who dont like being talked to directly. Or having eye contact. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/155 "2019-05-04T07:09:32Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > O… > Look, if I don’t want to be touched by you it doesn’t matter a bit to me what you “meant.” I’m fucking used to men getting offended when I tell them to keep their hands to themselves because they “only meant to be nice” or think I’m being too sensitive. I don’t care what you think or what you intended or what you “meant” I just want you to keep your hands to yourself and NOT TOUCH ME. > > DON’T TOUCH PEOPLE WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION. Why is this so hard to understand? Keep your hands to yourself. Don’t touch. A person’s body belongs to them, not to you and you have no inherent right to touch them. > > Seriously, what if you have a male friend whose idea of friendly contact is to reach down and touch the head of your penis through your pants? Every time you run into this guy he touches your penis. Does it fucking MATTER that he doesn’t “mean” it in a sexual way? Does it matter that he just “means” to be friendly? Does it matter that you don’t want your fucking penis touched without your permission or are you just public property, with your penis belonging to every rando who passes? Does that seem comfortable or right to you? > … Can you add “dont talk to me”? How about “dont make eye contact with me”? I am sorry if you have haphephobia, but that’s not normal. But it’s Ok to ask people to not touch you. And adding in unwanted touching of genitals is going way off the deep end. :rolleyes: Sexual touching is not appropriate in the workplace. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/156 "2019-05-04T07:12:09Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Why isn’t “just don’t do that” an optimal course of action? It actually requires LESS actions on your part. Do we add “dont talk to me” and “dont make direct eye contact”? Touching is a normal part of human communication. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/157 "2019-05-04T07:13:59Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > It always amazes me how many people in these threads insist that there should be no problem with them touching people who don’t want to be touched, and that they should not have to do anything whatsoever before placing hands on people that they either don’t know or only lightly know. … It always amazes me how many people in these threads insist that there should be no problem with them talking directly to people or making eye contact with people who don’t want that, and that they should not have to do anything whatsoever before placing talking to people or looking people in the eye that they either don’t know or only lightly know. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/158 "2019-05-04T07:15:10Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I guarantee you that if we worked together, any touch of you upon me would be out of line. I hate that. > > There’s a cool guy I work with everyday, and when he leaves, he comes over and fist-bumps me. I’d rather not do it. But I don’t want to hurt his feelings, and I actually don’t care if anyone touches me anywhere :)… “_Any touch would be out of line…I actually don’t care if anyone touches me anywhere_ …” ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/159 "2019-05-04T07:20:02Z")
Haha. I had to check whether this was a zombie thread when I saw the title. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424/160 "2019-05-04T07:40:19Z")
Zombies hate being touched - bit of 'em keep flaking off… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-touching-co-workers-ok/833424.md?page=9)