# Is trolling against the rules in the pit? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [February 23, 2017, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532 "2017-02-23T06:05:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/41 "2017-02-23T18:17:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > On the SDMB, it’s not the supporters. It’s everyone who has to point out they’re wrong, wrong, wrong. > > Regards, > Shodan It’s both. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/42 "2017-02-23T18:22:38Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > So, currently in the pit we have at least one poster who is clearly a troll. Someone who has nothing of value to offer any conversation, and is merely disruptive and annoying in very obvious ways. If you really think so, might I suggest sending a PM to Miller with links to some egregious examples. Also, since accusing someone of being a troll isn’t allowed in this forum, maybe you could post a link to one particular thread that you think makes your point, and let us determine for ourselves who it might be. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/43 "2017-02-23T18:44:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > DNFTT only works if > > 1. _Everyone_ agrees that the person is a troll, > 2. _Everyone_ agrees not to participate, even > 3. _Everyone_ who might agree with some part of what this person is saying. > > Troll threads will not sink into oblivion unless all three of these things happen…and even if they do, thinking that this will make said troll go away is nothing but blind faith. It would have to be blind faith, since I have never seen it happen (i.e. never seen no-one respond to obvious trollery). Nevertheless, I persist in this one belief. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/44 "2017-02-23T18:50:42Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Also, since accusing someone of being a troll isn’t allowed in this forum, maybe you could post a link to one particular thread that you think makes your point, and let us determine for ourselves who it might be. I would say no to this. Accusations of trollery are not permitted in this forum and while typically offering a link to a particular pitting is permitted, in the context of this thread that is the equivalent of making the accusation. Let’s keep this discussion to the board rules in general, please. This discussion should transcend any particular poster. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/45 "2017-02-23T19:08:46Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > The pit is slowly turning into 8chan or /pol/ because the moderators are adhering to rules that made sense in 1999 but are obsolete now. The best thing, sadly, is to distance yourself from a once interesting board as it turns into yet another alt-right forum. Slowly? 😃 The Pit should have been killed years ago. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/46 "2017-02-23T19:09:49Z")
I’ve found “don’t feed the troll” to be successful enough … if I find a Pit thread that’s no more than just a bitch-slap session I just simply don’t follow it … out-of-sight out-of-mind and all … ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/47 "2017-02-23T19:27:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > DNFTT only works if > > 1. _Everyone_ agrees that the person is a troll, > 2. _Everyone_ agrees not to participate, even > 3. _Everyone_ who might agree with some part of what this person is saying. > > Troll threads will not sink into oblivion unless all three of these things happen…and even if they do, thinking that this will make said troll go away is nothing but blind faith. I’m not certain #3 has to happen. But the beauty of ignoring the troll is even if they are still being engaged by someone else, it’s like they’re not even there. At least to you. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/48 "2017-02-23T19:41:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s easy for anyone to do. It’s difficult to get everyone to agree to do it. It’s the Pit. Pissing people off is part of its purpose. If so-called trolls are ruining people’s misanthropic acts in the pit I’m not convinced that the easy solutions of avoiding a couple threads or putting a couple people on ignore are not sufficient. I also think that if you pile on or Pit other posters you lose sympathy for your own hurt feelings or aggravation. TLDR version ignore is easy. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/49 "2017-02-23T19:52:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > DNFTT only works if > > 1. _Everyone_ agrees that the person is a troll, > 2. _Everyone_ agrees not to participate, even > 3. _Everyone_ who might agree with some part of what this person is saying. > > Troll threads will not sink into oblivion unless all three of these things happen…and even if they do, thinking that this will make said troll go away is nothing but blind faith. So, tricking him into spelling his name backwards won’t make him go away _a la_ Mxyzptlk? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/50 "2017-02-23T20:00:20Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > So, tricking him into spelling his name backwards won’t make him go away _a la_ Mxyzptlk? If I was going to have blind faith in a method that might work, I’d pick this one. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/51 "2017-02-23T20:08:05Z")
If you see what you feel is trolling anywhere including the Pit report it. As the above quote from Miller illustrates there is a higher bar set for trolling in the Pit. It often involves a pattern of behavior. If we miss certain posts and they are not report that pattern may not be readily apparent. Just remember that there is only one Pit mod and we only let him out for a short time each day. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/52 "2017-02-23T20:57:08Z")
The problem is that this message board is about fighting ignorance, which means that DNFTT is not really a viable option. Sure, individuals can stay out, but someone needs to fight the ignorance, keeping it from spreading without consequence. Furthermore, we can’t point out a troll where everyone will see it. And no one is perfect, so a troll will get your goat sometimes. And, when you do, you have the emotional reaction that actually feeds them. This makes us more vulnerable to trolls than average. To that end we need moderators that are more ready to react to trolling. But the mods here want to give every troll as much rope as they can to hang themselves. Even someone announcing their desire to troll everyone is given the benefit of the doubt. (It also really doesn’t help when one of those moderators likes to use the Pit to mock everyone who points out trolling in good faith. If we can’t pit moderators for doing their job, then mods should not be able to use information they only have due to being a mod to attack posters.) We need clear rules for exactly what is trolling, and we need to be able to pull the trigger early. Yes, trolls can come back, but that’s why we have the anti-sock rule. If they are using proxies, then the board needs better proxy protection, preventing people from signing up on known proxies. Or we need to shore up the weaknesses in the community. Ignorance still has to be fought, but explaining how someone is trolling should not be completely forbidden. We can describe behaviors and impressions without it being a direct attack. That’s really all I can come up with. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/53 "2017-02-23T21:09:02Z")
Feeding trolls just encourages more trolley, and more trolls. If you want less ignorance, starve the trolls and they won’t pollute this place with so much ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/54 "2017-02-23T21:16:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Feeding trolls just encourages more trolley, and more trolls. If you want less ignorance, starve the trolls and they won’t pollute this place with so much ignorance. You’ve pretty much said this already, but it ignores what has been said about the difficultly of doing such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/55 "2017-02-23T21:16:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > A type of “troll” that is very difficult to apply the “ignore it and it will sink to the bottom” rule to is the political troll, because enough people of the same political persuasion will not see such a person as a problem to get rid of, and will post support, to keep such treads alive. I think this is an example of one of the leading challenges in identifying trolls and trolling behavior. If there are many other posters that agree and support the position being espoused, can it really be said that the targeted poster is doing so \*\*solely \*\*to get a rise out of people - I don’t think so. A well crafted rule should be able to be applied evenly. The downstream impacts of any such rule need to be considered and as \*\*Miller \*\*has stated previously, a looser enforcement of trolling is necessary in the Pit else every third post would garner moderation. > [@BigT](#): > > We need clear rules for exactly what is trolling, and we need to be able to pull the trigger early. What do you suggest for what these clear rules should be? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/56 "2017-02-23T21:18:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Feeding trolls just encourages more trolley, and more trolls. If you want less ignorance, starve the trolls and they won’t pollute this place with so much ignorance. No matter how true this is, accept that _it’s never going to happen_. You can get 95% of the posters to ignore the trolls, but all it takes is a few people to keep it going. If the goal is how can I as an individual ignore trolls, that’s easy. Stay out of the threads or use the Ignore function. But if your goal is to reduce/eliminate trolls on the board, repeating DNFTT over and over is useless. A different approach is needed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/57 "2017-02-23T21:47:57Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > No matter how true this is, accept that _it’s never going to happen_. You can get 95% of the posters to ignore the trolls, but all it takes is a few people to keep it going. > > If the goal is how can I as an individual ignore trolls, that’s easy. Stay out of the threads or use the Ignore function. But if your goal is to reduce/eliminate trolls on the board, repeating DNFTT over and over is useless. A different approach is needed. What different approach do you suggest? We’re talking about the Pit where a certain amount to of trolling is allowed. I also don’t accept that we have to get “everyone” to stop feeding them. My experience is that it’s only a small subset of posters here who are prolific feeders. Use the 80/20 rule and you’ll make some decent headway. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/58 "2017-02-23T22:00:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What different approach do you suggest? We’re talking about the Pit where a certain amount to of trolling is allowed. I just point out problems with others’ ideas. I don’t come up with anything myself. But honestly, I don’t think there is a good solution. There are a few cases that I personally think deserved moderation in the Pit, but the majority of threads people point to as trolling represent someone with strongly-held beliefs having fun by getting a rise out of the opposition. That might be trolling elsewhere, but not in the Pit, and I don’t see how you can have a Pit if that wasn’t allowed. > [@](#): > > I also don’t accept that we have to get “everyone” to stop feeding them. My experience is that it’s only a small subset of posters here who are prolific feeders. Use the 80/20 rule and you’ll make some decent headway. This approach has been tried for ~17 years and those 20% have not yet been convinced to stop feeding. How many more years do you think are needed for this to be successful? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/59 "2017-02-23T22:28:20Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The problem is that this message board is about fighting ignorance, which means that DNFTT is not really a viable option. Sure, individuals can stay out, but someone needs to fight the ignorance, keeping it from spreading without consequence. > > Furthermore, we can’t point out a troll where everyone will see it. And no one is perfect, so a troll will get your goat sometimes. And, when you do, you have the emotional reaction that actually feeds them. > > This makes us more vulnerable to trolls than average. To that end we need moderators that are more ready to react to trolling. But the mods here want to give every troll as much rope as they can to hang themselves. Even someone announcing their desire to troll everyone is given the benefit of the doubt. > > (It also really doesn’t help when one of those moderators likes to use the Pit to mock everyone who points out trolling in good faith. If we can’t pit moderators for doing their job, then mods should not be able to use information they only have due to being a mod to attack posters.) > > We need clear rules for exactly what is trolling, and we need to be able to pull the trigger early. Yes, trolls can come back, but that’s why we have the anti-sock rule. If they are using proxies, then the board needs better proxy protection, preventing people from signing up on known proxies. > > Or we need to shore up the weaknesses in the community. Ignorance still has to be fought, but explaining how someone is trolling should not be completely forbidden. We can describe behaviors and impressions without it being a direct attack. > > That’s really all I can come up with. Wow. Seems like you are overthinking The Pit™. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2017, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532/60 "2017-02-24T00:35:54Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > I just point out problems with others’ ideas. I don’t come up with anything myself. > > But honestly, I don’t think there is a good solution. There are a few cases that I personally think deserved moderation in the Pit, but the majority of threads people point to as trolling represent someone with strongly-held beliefs having fun by getting a rise out of the opposition. That might be trolling elsewhere, but not in the Pit, and I don’t see how you can have a Pit if that wasn’t allowed. Bring back the practice of putting under a microscope those who don’t really contribute outside the Pit. If that forum is their primary reason for being here, no great loss. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trolling-against-the-rules-in-the-pit/780532.md?page=4)