# Is Trump a fifth columnist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 2, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938 "2016-07-02T18:26:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/1 "2016-07-02T18:26:47Z")
Thinking about it, what damage will Trump have done to the Democratic party? How does that compare to the damage he’ll have done to the GOP? In the 50s, the GOP got on board with a mean, petty, No Nothing attitude to get Southern votes. Nixon made it worse with his fear mongering and his Southern Strategy. Fox News then became its Pravda and echo chamber. The Tea Party put so much emphasis on purity and closing ranks that it became impossible for them to make any compromises, lest they be accused of betraying the cause; it was “all or nothing” which, when it comes to democratic government, usually means “nothing”. Trump Jiu Jitsued that nastiness against GOPers, even Tea Partiers like Ted Cruz. His persona means he’s popular with white men, especially older white men. These tend to be quite GOP-voting anyway. Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m given to think that white women are a big swing vote. They tend to be repulsed by Trump and have demographic affinity with Hilary Clinton. So, could he be doing this to both serve his own financial/narcissistic/histrionic interests as well as help the Democrats/Clintons? ---
**Author:** ![NeonMadman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58f4c7/32.png) [@NeonMadman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeonMadman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/2 "2016-07-02T19:18:38Z")
I’ve had a nagging feeling for a while that Trump might simply be shilling for Clinton. It’s like, I don’t \*really \*believe it, but at the same time, I can’t quite get it out of my head. At one point, Trump was threatening to “go it alone” if the GOP leaders didn’t stop saying bad stuff about him (or something like that). Either way, he seems to have them over a barrel. If he’s nominated and basically throws the election, then Hillary wins. If the GOP finds a way to dump him at the convention and goes with someone else, then Trump runs as an independent, splits the Republican vote, and Hillary wins. If he really is running as a shill for Hillary, he’s done his job spectacularly. Of course, I’d imagine that if evidence of such collusion ever came out, both parties would need new candidates, since Trump and Hillary would both be in prison. Now there’s talk of Chris Christie being a strong possibility as the VP pick, which would again make me scratch my head – would someone who really wants to win the election pick as a running mate a governor with a 62% negative approval rating even in his home state? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/3 "2016-07-02T19:37:06Z")
> [@NeonMadman](#): > > I’ve had a nagging feeling for a while that Trump might simply be shilling for Clinton. It’s like, I don’t \*really \*believe it, but at the same time, I can’t quite get it out of my head. It’s a fun idea to ponder, but I’m afraid it doesn’t really hold up under scrutiny. Just ask yourself what he’d do differently if he genuinely wanted Hillary Clinton to be the next president; I’m sure you can come up with a long list. Okay, a short list. Maybe two things? Possibly just one. Hang on; we can _do_ this. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/4 "2016-07-02T19:42:12Z")
Several months ago, I could have believed that Trump was a secret saboteur working on behalf of liberals. Now I think he’s genuine. The guy isn’t smart enough to be a secret agent. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/5 "2016-07-02T19:43:53Z")
Trump’s ego would never allow him to do something to help someone other than himself unless there was some way that he would profit off of it. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/6 "2016-07-03T00:09:01Z")
**Fifth columnist**? Isn’t that term just a wee bit out of date? How about fifth blogger? Except Trump doesn’t do a blog. Fifth Tweeter, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/7 "2016-07-03T00:15:03Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > **Fifth columnist**? Isn’t that term just a wee bit out of date? How about fifth blogger? Except Trump doesn’t do a blog. Fifth Tweeter, perhaps. The “column” in the expression refers to columns of troops. It might get used a lot in journalism, but the expression has nothing to do with a newspaper column. > **[Fifth column](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_column)** > > A fifth column is a group of people who undermine a larger group or nation from within, usually in favor of an enemy group or another nation. The activities of a fifth column can be overt or clandestine. Forces gathered in secret can mobilize openly to assist an external attack. The term is also applied to organized actions by military personnel. Clandestine fifth column activities can involve acts of sabotage, disinformation, espionage or terrorism executed within defense lines by secret sym... ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/8 "2016-07-03T00:27:32Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > The “column” in the expression refers to columns of troops. It might get used a lot in journalism, but the expression has nothing to do with a newspaper column. I [know](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/9 "2016-07-03T02:32:23Z")
I think he’s a Fifth Rowist myself. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/10 "2016-07-03T05:06:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Trump’s ego would never allow him to do something to help someone other than himself unless there was some way that he would profit off of it. [Donald Trump’s Self-Funding Includes Payments to Family and His Companies](http://nyti.ms/28K3UaC). You were saying… ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/11 "2016-07-03T07:15:43Z")
My opinion on Trump is a lot less conspiratorial than what the OP here suggested. I just think that like many very wealthy people, he lives in a bubble surrounded by employees who risk losing their jobs if they tell Trump “No, that’s a bad idea.” He’s been a media darling since he appeared in the public consciousness during the 80’s. He’s never faced a neutral or hostile political press. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Niply\_Elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@The\_Niply\_Elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Niply_Elder)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/12 "2016-07-03T08:02:04Z")
> [@NeonMadman](#): > > If he really is running as a shill for Hillary, he’s done his job spectacularly. Of course, I’d imagine that if evidence of such collusion ever came out, both parties would need new candidates, since Trump and Hillary would both be in prison. Wait. What? Under what law would they be sent to prison? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/13 "2016-07-03T09:07:40Z")
I don’t believe Trump has any political goals other than his own financial benefit. The only reason he wants to be President is to have the ability to manipulate domestic and international regulations to give himself and his family further advantages. Why would he be a shill for anyone else? And how would he benefit from Hillary’s presidency? He’s spent his life looking out for #1, and not giving a damn about anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/14 "2016-07-03T09:57:52Z")
I do not believe it’s some grand conspiracy. I was thinking of it as possibly two people and their respective organizations who have interests that align well, are not genuinely hostile to each other despite what they may say publicly and are glad that the other is in that position. Trump may enjoy Clinton getting to be president on top of whatever benefits he accrues personally. ---
**Author:** ![NeonMadman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58f4c7/32.png) [@NeonMadman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeonMadman)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/15 "2016-07-03T21:01:57Z")
> [@The\_Niply\_Elder](#): > > Wait. What? Under what law would they be sent to prison? Good question, now that you ask it. I guess I just assumed there must be some sort of law that would prohibit two opposing candidates from colluding to defraud the American public in order to throw a presidential election. I could be wrong, though; maybe it’s completely legal. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/16 "2016-07-03T23:30:20Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I don’t believe Trump has any political goals other than his own financial benefit. The only reason he wants to be President is to have the ability to manipulate domestic and international regulations to give himself and his family further advantages. Why would he be a shill for anyone else? And how would he benefit from Hillary’s presidency? He’s spent his life looking out for #1, and not giving a damn about anyone else. This. One might argue whether he was serious about running for president or whether it was just a ploy to enhance his brand and make some money along the way that unexpectedly got out of hand, so now he’s running with it. Trump did say back in 2000 that he might be the only candidate who ever made money out of running for president, and now his payments to his companies and his family seem to bear this out. So it’s both a short-term win – money for his companies – and a long-term win – enhancing the Trump brand. Actually winning the presidency would be just gravy. He’d probably accept the position and stay in it as long as it fed his enormous ego and seemed like fun, but not if it didn’t. So one might argue whether he was serious or not, but I don’t think there’s any way to argue that Trump has serious political objectives, especially on behalf of anyone else. Trump has always been only about Trump. He’s about as immoral and unprincipled a cretin as I’ve ever come across in the mainstream of public life. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/17 "2016-07-04T15:58:05Z")
> [@NeonMadman](#): > > Good question, now that you ask it. I guess I just assumed there must be some sort of law that would prohibit two opposing candidates from colluding to defraud the American public in order to throw a presidential election. I could be wrong, though; maybe it’s completely legal. Is it legal to bet on who the next president will be? Is it legal to make that bet if you’re running for president? Is it legal to do that if you’re running for president really badly? ---
**Author:** ![NeonMadman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58f4c7/32.png) [@NeonMadman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeonMadman)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/18 "2016-07-05T19:16:01Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Is it legal to bet on who the next president will be? > > Is it legal to make that bet if you’re running for president? > > Is it legal to do that if you’re running for president really badly? Well, I guess I was thinking about a situation where collusion could be _proven_, not just where it appeared that Trump was running a bad campaign. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/19 "2016-07-05T19:39:29Z")
> [@NeonMadman](#): > > Well, I guess I was thinking about a situation where collusion could be _proven_, not just where it appeared that Trump was running a bad campaign. No, see, my questions still stand: they were _half_-serious, but they were half-_serious_, if you get where I’m going with this. Imagine nothing can be proven, though it appears he’s running a bad campaign; what wagers are possible by folks in his employ? Imagine collusion is proven; what follows? ---
**Author:** ![NeonMadman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58f4c7/32.png) [@NeonMadman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeonMadman)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938/20 "2016-07-06T16:16:25Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > No, see, my questions still stand: they were _half_-serious, but they were half-_serious_, if you get where I’m going with this. Imagine nothing can be proven, though it appears he’s running a bad campaign; what wagers are possible by folks in his employ? Imagine collusion is proven; what follows? Hmmm, I’m not sure I do get where you’re going with this. And I’m not a lawyer, so I can’t really be sure as to the legality of betting on a presidential election. I’d imagine it would depend on the jurisdiction, but it seems unlikely to me that an ordinary bet between individuals would be prosecuted. Is it legal to make that bet if you’re running for president? Sure, why not; at least as legal (or unlikely to be prosecuted if it’s technically illegal where you are) as anyone else’s bet. And if you’re running for president really badly? I wouldn’t think that would make a difference. If Trump is at a bar with his buddies and bets them $1000 each that he’s going to win in November, a) who cares? and b) how would anybody other than the parties involved know about it, and c) if the authorities did know about it, why should they make a big deal about it (unless their actions were politically motivated)? But for all of that, I don’t see an analogy between that situation and a deal knowingly made between two opposing candidates to essentially defraud the voters and throw the election to one of them; in essence for a candidate to enter the race insincerely for the sole purpose of losing, in order to ensure that the other candidate wins. If a deal like that could be proven, I think it would likely violate some laws. Not sure which ones, but it hardly seems to me that such an arrangement could be completely legal. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-fifth-columnist/758938.md?page=2)