# Is Trump a symptom or a cause? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 6, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089 "2018-11-06T18:03:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/21 "2018-11-06T20:03:02Z")
Symptom. To call him a cause is to relieve certain individuals of responsibility for their own actions. Actually, I’ve come to think of him more as a medical exam than as a symptom. People have always been more or less how they are, but Trump’s ascendancy has encouraged certain previously under-observed elements to step out of the shadows. So we’re halfway through our Trumpscan with Penceium enhancement. And I think ultimately it’s a good thing (if we can survive the scan) because whether you like someone or not, it’s never a good thing to ignore them for very long. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/22 "2018-11-06T20:21:02Z")
Yes, he is both a simpleton and a curse. I’m not wearing my glasses right now, so I hope I got that right. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/23 "2018-11-06T20:38:26Z")
Fox News and similar have played a pivotal role in driving the US towards a dictatorial government. Fascism, if you will. Controlling the masses with really stupid stuff: one bad example means a whole section of government must be eliminated, unbelievable contortions of logic, ignoring facts, making up “facts”, etc. It was inevitable that a “strong man” type would win a Republican nomination. They just didn’t expect it to be someone like Trump who fits into their narrative better than they dreamed. Except for the issues of competence, lying, etc. Note that they also sowed the seed for getting friendly with Russia with their propaganda techniques. But again, Trump is taking that far farther then they wanted. In particular, the way social media can be exploited by the infamous “Bad Actors” to push the right wing narrative put it all into overdrive. So he’s a symptom gone wrong. If there was only a well known example from literature where someone tries to create a thing and the result is something that goes out of control. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/24 "2018-11-06T21:04:51Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Name one Trump talking point that isn’t a variant of something previously trumpeted by other idiots. Obviously Trump’s ideology is not wholly original. But the fact that he was elected is a symptom of right wing extremism/ignorance/clownery run amok. If he hadn’t been elected, he wouldn’t be in a position to be a cause. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/25 "2018-11-06T21:05:40Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > It was inevitable that a “strong man” type would win a Republican nomination. They just didn’t expect it to be someone like Trump who fits into their narrative better than they dreamed. Nah. A person with true conservative credentials (e.g. not a life-long democrat), who also wasn’t an execrable human being on a personal level would have been a better strongman. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/26 "2018-11-06T21:07:30Z")
He is both, but if the US didn’t have a sizeable minority of ignorant hayseed rubes and racists he would never have gotten off the ground. So he is a symptom of a dysfunctional society but also a bit of a cause because he enables racism. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/27 "2018-11-06T21:12:07Z")
People like him have always been around. In the past, they had zero chance of becoming president of the country, because no reasonable thoughtful person could vote for them. Trump is now president because ( **and only because** ) of the huge contingent of unreasonable thoughtless people the US has developed. Every individual who voted to get him elected, including all the members of the general public who voted Republican, all the members of the Republican party who decided to back him anyway (even if just because he was the candidate from their party), and each member of the electoral college who voted for him, is an irresponsible moron. Individually, not collectively. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/28 "2018-11-06T21:16:27Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > He is both, but if the US didn’t have a sizeable minority of ignorant hayseed rubes and racists he would never have gotten off the ground. So he is a symptom of a dysfunctional society but also a bit of a cause because he enables racism. Not hayseeds. Not ignorant. Well-groomed, knowledgeable, and morons. Ignorance can be fixed by knowledge; these people already know, but are too stupid to make use of it. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/29 "2018-11-06T21:28:54Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Nah. A person with true conservative credentials (e.g. not a life-long democrat), who also wasn’t an execrable human being on a personal level would have been a better strongman. And thats the problem. Maybe the next amoral strongman the GOP put out there won’t be so grossly incompetent. What if the GOP learn the wrong lesson from all this and appoint someone who hates democracy just as much as Trump does, but who actually knows how to manipulate the levers of power to achieve that goal. Then we will become like Poland. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/30 "2018-11-06T21:48:03Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > And thats the problem. Maybe the next amoral strongman the GOP put out there won’t be so grossly incompetent. > > What if the GOP learn the wrong lesson from all this and appoint someone who hates democracy just as much as Trump does, but who actually knows how to manipulate the levers of power to achieve that goal. > > Then we will become like Poland. That assumes you’re currently very unlike Poland; I’m not completely convinced. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/31 "2018-11-06T22:03:27Z")
He was a cause of division even before his election and candidacy, what with his position at the front of birtherism. But he’s still more of a symptom. In the world as it should be, an angry old bankrupt rich man spouting off racist conspiracy theories would have been ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/32 "2018-11-06T22:15:59Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > That assumes you’re currently very unlike Poland; I’m not completely convinced. Poland seems further along into the transition to authoritarianism than the US. ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/33 "2018-11-06T22:22:23Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > sorry, this one I can’t abide by. Religion doesn’t make people good. There are plenty of horrible people who do horrible things sitting in pews on Sunday morning. Or even delivering the sermons. Yes. This is my point. Religion has utterly failed in its ostensible goal. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/34 "2018-11-06T23:01:54Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Poland seems further along into the transition to authoritarianism than the US. Sure. But being in transition is the point; how far along is trivial. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/35 "2018-11-06T23:07:54Z")
He’s a rolling snowball. He may be made of smaller individual flakes but, now that he’s moving, he’s increasing the amount of damage far more than the original snowflakes could. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/36 "2018-11-06T23:48:44Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > The election of Trump was IMHO a symptom of the divisions of society, specifically the distance between the elites and the proles. Much the same can be said for Brexit BTW. Many people had nothing left to lose and saw Clinton as ‘more of the same’ so voted for change. Since his election, he’s been a disruptor. Which shows how stupid the “proles” who voted for him are, since he is a claimed billionaire who has shat on them his entire career. He gets a tax cut through, which mostly goes to the rich, he is busy fighting a trade war which is going to raise their prices, and his “charitable” foundation funnels money back to him. But since he has no shame, he is quite good at conning them into believing he is on their side. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/37 "2018-11-06T23:52:57Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > sorry, this one I can’t abide by. Religion doesn’t make people good. There are plenty of horrible people who do horrible things sitting in pews on Sunday morning. Or even delivering the sermons. Not just this, but the very preachers of chastity and purity are just fine with this piece of scum who brags about his adultery and who brags about assaulting women. If Jesus were in the audience he’d go up to the pulpit and punch these holier than thou types right in the nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/38 "2018-11-07T00:37:22Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Yes, he is both a simpleton and a curse. I’m not wearing my glasses right now, so I hope I got that right. Bravo ! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/39 "2018-11-07T05:26:32Z")
He’s both. He’s gasoline on a fire, but the fire was already there. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089/40 "2018-11-07T06:10:47Z")
Symptom. The Democrats and mainstream Republicans governed badly, decade after decade. Some voters decided they wanted option C, rather than more of A and B. In Spring of 2015, the corporate donor glass was gearing up to give us a choice between Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush. That’s why Trump became President. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-a-symptom-or-a-cause/824089.md?page=3)