# Is Trump an Asset of Russia (Or Some Other Foreign Power)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 7, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425 "2019-10-07T16:44:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/181 "2019-10-16T18:19:10Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > It’s a link in a post above. Found it. This is an example of what I said over in the impeachment thread, of people just posting a link and not commenting on it. You said nothing about this yourself, not even to briefly say what it was about. But no matter, I went and read it. It is claimed in a book by Michael Isikoff and David Corn that a letter was given to Trump as a gift from Putin, and no one knows what was in it. Do you have any specific thing to say about this, or do I have to guess? That is not meant to be a snark. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/182 "2019-10-16T18:22:47Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/183 "2019-10-16T18:26:22Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I already posted a link that putin gave dt a gift box in 2013 that no one knows what was inside. > > What kind of things in there might it say? What would you say to dt in 2013 if you were vp? > > If I was FP I might say “no evidence” based on the “inaccessiblity” of the gift, from our keyboards here in our homes. > > But it’s hard to imagine any message in there that could not be destuctive, humiliating, or even convicting of dt. Why is it “hard to imagine any message in there that could not be destuctive, humiliating, or even convicting of dt”? I have no difficulty imagining that Putin may have sent President Trump (prior to him becoming President) some inane nicety along the lines of “thanks for your real estate investment in \_\_\_\_\_” or whatever else. Maybe just a “hey, I really like you on the Apprentice”. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/184 "2019-10-16T18:29:09Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > It doesn’t even have to be crimes (though I do suspect many were committed, and hopefully will be revealed), but purely financial interests. I agree that it doesn’t have to be actual crimes. > [@](#): > > Pee tapes, proof of collusion or even treason, those mean nothing to him, true or false. Not getting another extension on his line of credit though…? All of those mean plenty to him, if I had to guess. This is one of the big reasons that suggests to me Trump hasn’t committed nefarious crimes or deeds which may be used to manipulate him. If he had, why would he get anywhere near the presidency? Trump may be a lot of things, but I don’t think he is dumb enough to think that running for president means your whole life is going to be _ **less** _ scrutinized. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/185 "2019-10-16T19:00:57Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I agree that it doesn’t have to be actual crimes. True, there are many ways that a person can be compromised and have conflicts of interest that are not illegal on their own. Which doesn’t rule out actual crimes. > [@](#): > > All of those mean plenty to him, if I had to guess. This is one of the big reasons that suggests to me Trump hasn’t committed nefarious crimes or deeds which may be used to manipulate him. If he had, why would he get anywhere near the presidency? Trump may be a lot of things, but I don’t think he is dumb enough to think that running for president means your whole life is going to be _ **less** _ scrutinized. I don’t give him that much credit for forethought. He wasn’t planning on winning the presidency. When he did, he made a big show of “divesting” which he never did. Then realized he didn’t have to, and in fact, could use the justice department to cover for his crimes. Honest now: If Trump had to decide between what was best for his personal financial interests and what was good for the country, do you truly believe that he is going to put country first? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/186 "2019-10-16T19:06:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There isn’t any “direct evidence”. That’s painfully obvious at this point. The entire “President Trump is a foreign agent” claim is built on suppositions and guesswork, and feverish, overactive imaginations. Let’s say that I grab ten teens out of a concert and show them to you and each one was dressed fully in black, their clothes had holes all over, many piercings, hair dyed black and spiked up, and the girls all had done their faces up to be extra white. I then tell you that these are Billy’s friends and that Billy is also in the concert. Would you view it as unreasonable to make the statement, “You would be unwise to bet that Billy is NOT a goth.”? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/187 "2019-10-16T19:48:41Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Let’s say that I grab ten teens out of a concert and show them to you and each one was dressed fully in black, their clothes had holes all over, many piercings, hair dyed black and spiked up, and the girls all had done their faces up to be extra white. > > I then tell you that these are Billy’s friends and that Billy is also in the concert. > > Would you view it as unreasonable to make the statement, “You would be unwise to bet that Billy is NOT a goth.”? No, although I’m struggling to see the relevance to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/188 "2019-10-16T19:53:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I don’t give him that much credit for forethought. He wasn’t planning on winning the presidency. When he did, he made a big show of “divesting” which he never did. Then realized he didn’t have to, and in fact, could use the justice department to cover for his crimes. > > Honest now: If Trump had to decide between what was best for his personal financial interests and what was good for the country, do you truly believe that he is going to put country first? As a general rule, yeah, forethought isn’t his strong suit. Nor is intelligence, but I really don’t think he would assume he could just cover up shit by ordering the DoJ around. As for your second question, I can’t answer that unless I have specifics. Does not putting the country first mean thousands of lives would be lost, or more, for example? What, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/189 "2019-10-16T19:58:50Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > I don’t think Putin is paying Trump, at least. He’s getting what he wants for free, apparently. I think Trump’s personality – erratic, revengeful, self-absorbed, lacking in any curiosity whatsoever about facts needed for his job, pathetically worshipful of raw brutal power wherever it is in evidence – is explanation enough for what is observably going on. I agree 100%. Now, I’m unsure as to whether Russian actors have attempted to bribe or blackmail Trump but I don’t think it matters. Because Trump is so totally amoral that bribery and blackmail don’t work with him. Take bribery. I bet you could could tell Trump what you want and offer the payoff. And I bet he’d take it. But he’s so amoral he wouldn’t feel it obligated him in any way. When someone says to Trump “Do what I want and I’ll give you $100”, he hears “I’ll give you $100.” There’s never any quid pro quo with Trump because he never feels any obligation to deliver the quo once he gets the quid. This is what saved his ass during his pre-election dealing with Russia. This is what made me laugh about the accounts of the infamous Trump Tower / Russia meeting. Because they were all so so so confused when that government lawyer started talking about Magnitsky and adoptions. And I was alway like “ Hey, you brilliant negotiators! This is the part of the negotiation when THEY tell you what THEY want in exchange for that thing that YOU want. And blackmail? He’s totally without any sense of shame and he doesn’t acknowledge that anything he does has the potential to be wrong. His general reaction to kompromat has been to release it proudly himself and claim it doesn’t show anything wrong. > [@drad\_dog](#): > > This is a third way for this: That dt has had an ambition towards populist power, has read the books… You lost me at your claim that Trump has read books. I can believe a lot of improbable stuff about Trump but that one is way too much. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/190 "2019-10-16T20:37:55Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > As a general rule, yeah, forethought isn’t his strong suit. Nor is intelligence, but I really don’t think he would assume he could just cover up shit by ordering the DoJ around. As I already said, I don’t think he had any plans of winning the presidency. He simply went down that escalator as a publicity stunt, and things steamrolled from there. The scuttlebutt is that he was just running in order to get NBC to give him a raise. OTOH, I think that is exactly what he assumed. He thought that Obama was committing crimes and using his DOJ to cover for him. I do think that he does believe that that is its purpose. > [@](#): > > As for your second question, I can’t answer that unless I have specifics. Does not putting the country first mean thousands of lives would be lost, or more, for example? What, exactly? Lives, treasures, standing, reputation, allies, the environment (and I don’t just mean global climate change, but general degradation and pollution as well). You don’t need specifics, that is just a game of proposing and then fighting the hypothetical that I don’t have time or inclination for right now. It is a simple question. Do you think that he will put his interests or the interest of the country first? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/191 "2019-10-16T20:51:51Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > As I already said, I don’t think he had any plans of winning the presidency. He simply went down that escalator as a publicity stunt, and things steamrolled from there. The scuttlebutt is that he was just running in order to get NBC to give him a raise. I’ve heard that too, and I generally agree. But at that time, he had no idea how far this would go. But as the campaign went on, and as he saw his support grow, as he generally slaughtered his opponents in debates and he rose in the polls, he would have found a way to bail out. > [@](#): > > OTOH, I think that is exactly what he assumed. He thought that Obama was committing crimes and using his DOJ to cover for him. I do think that he does believe that that is its purpose. Fair enough. We disagree. > [@](#): > > Lives, treasures, standing, reputation, allies, the environment (and I don’t just mean global climate change, but general degradation and pollution as well). > > You don’t need specifics, that is just a game of proposing and then fighting the hypothetical that I don’t have time or inclination for right now. It is a simple question. Do you think that he will put his interests or the interest of the country first? Yes, I do need specifics, and no, I’m not playing a game. And it’s fine if you don’t have the time or inclination. But as you phrase it, it’s too general. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/192 "2019-10-16T20:56:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, although I’m struggling to see the relevance to this thread. You would be unwise to bet that Trump has NOT done something blackmail worthy. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/193 "2019-10-16T21:15:18Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I’ve heard that too, and I generally agree. But at that time, he had no idea how far this would go. But as the campaign went on, and as he saw his support grow, as he generally slaughtered his opponents in debates and he rose in the polls, he would have found a way to bail out. All the way up to the election, no one thought he would win, including him. > [@](#): > > Fair enough. We disagree. Okay, but it’s hard to explain why he got so mad at Sessions for recusing himself, unless he believed that Sessions was there to defend him, just as a starter. > [@](#): > > Yes, I do need specifics, and no, I’m not playing a game. And it’s fine if you don’t have the time or inclination. But as you phrase it, it’s too general. I don’t see how it is too general, it is a very simple question, but lets go with a specific. Do you think that he would endanger our allies and relationships by holding up military aid to a country that is currently fighting against a country that we have a strained-at-best-relationship with in exchange for assistance in his re-election campaign? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/194 "2019-10-16T21:33:53Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > An example of a conspiracy theory, through and through. While not completely detailed and formulated here, there is no other term for this. Can you explain how that is a CT? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/195 "2019-10-16T21:40:29Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Found it. This is an example of what I said over in the impeachment thread, of people just posting a link and not commenting on it. You said nothing about this yourself, not even to briefly say what it was about. But no matter, I went and read it. It is claimed in a book by Michael Isikoff and David Corn that a letter was given to Trump as a gift from Putin, and no one knows what was in it. Do you have any specific thing to say about this, or do I have to guess? That is not meant to be a snark. My post was a citation in responce to your questions about why dt is in thrall to putin. You said it was doubtful that putin could communicate corrupt wishes to dt. Therefore it would be a CT to wonder what’s up with that shit. But vp has been communicating secretly with dt for 6 years or more. dt has had conversations, as the US president, with putin, that have been kept private from US citizens and officials. It is a matter of record. Something else to ignore I guess? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/196 "2019-10-16T21:41:46Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I agree 100%. Now, I’m unsure as to whether Russian actors have attempted to bribe or blackmail Trump but I don’t think it matters. Because Trump is so totally amoral that bribery and blackmail don’t work with him. > > Take bribery. I bet you could could tell Trump what you want and offer the payoff. And I bet he’d take it. But he’s so amoral he wouldn’t feel it obligated him in any way. When someone says to Trump “Do what I want and I’ll give you $100”, he hears “I’ll give you $100.” There’s never any quid pro quo with Trump because he never feels any obligation to deliver the quo once he gets the quid. This is what saved his ass during his pre-election dealing with Russia. > > This is what made me laugh about the accounts of the infamous Trump Tower / Russia meeting. Because they were all so so so confused when that government lawyer started talking about Magnitsky and adoptions. And I was alway like “ Hey, you brilliant negotiators! This is the part of the negotiation when THEY tell you what THEY want in exchange for that thing that YOU want. > > And blackmail? He’s totally without any sense of shame and he doesn’t acknowledge that anything he does has the potential to be wrong. His general reaction to kompromat has been to release it proudly himself and claim it doesn’t show anything wrong. > > You lost me at your claim that Trump has read books. I can believe a lot of improbable stuff about Trump but that one is way too much. IIRC it’s on record that dt keeps Mein Kampf next to his bed. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/197 "2019-10-16T21:48:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Why is it “hard to imagine any message in there that could not be destuctive, humiliating, or even convicting of dt”? > > I have no difficulty imagining that Putin may have sent President Trump (prior to him becoming President) some inane nicety along the lines of “thanks for your real estate investment in \_\_\_\_\_” or whatever else. Maybe just a “hey, I really like you on the Apprentice”. OK let’s bat it around. dt has been teasing his run for president for decades. It just won’t do to imagine vlad has remained uninformed about that. So vlad knows a whole boatload of intelligence on his habits, wants, and weaknesses. He’s a spy. My guess is that he said “Good luck on X. You really want to run? We will do whatever we can to help. and BTW (here is a file of photographs) We look foward to working with you” Looks like within 2 years it became a real thing. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/198 "2019-10-16T21:57:53Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > IIRC it’s on record that dt keeps Mein Kampf next to his bed. “on record” where? I suppose anything’s possible, but that sounds really “out there”. This thread is literally the first time I’ve heard this claim. Do you have a cite? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/199 "2019-10-16T22:09:22Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > IIRC it’s on record that dt keeps Mein Kampf next to his bed. There is no compelling evidence that Trump has ever read or collected any book (other than his own ghostwritten memoirs). It’s possible that Trump has \*Mein Kampf \*next to his bed, and Steve Bannon put it there, and Trump never consciously registered it beyond being a squarish object suitable for cutting up rails of Adderall. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/200 "2019-10-16T22:27:58Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > IIRC it’s on record that dt keeps Mein Kampf next to his bed. Close. It’s [My New Order](https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-ex-wife-once-said-he-kept-a-book-of-hitlers-speeches-by-his-bed-2015-8). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425.md?page=11)