# Is Trump an Asset of Russia (Or Some Other Foreign Power)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 7, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425 "2019-10-07T16:44:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/241 "2019-10-17T17:41:44Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Not rightly so, and I don’t care if anyone is upset with me. But to address this specifically, I agree with this. Sure. But I’m talking about reading his mind in order to decide what he would actually do, in real life. I would like to have understood your response to this point. But I don’t. Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post All kidding aside, on this board the key things to pay attention to are: 1. Overuse of asking for cites, 2. Fixation on the use of a particular word, such as asking for precise definitions and then quibbling with them, 3. If someone provides ten points in favor of an idea or whatever, proceeding to nitpick the hell out of one in order to “disprove” the other nine, 4. Altering the basics of the debate or moving the goalposts of a standard of proof, forcing others to essentially go back to square one, 5. An extreme focus on the process of a debate, rather than the main point (e.g., if someone says the sky is blue, the troll/sealioner will focus discussion individually/serially on the words, meaning, and standard of proof for “sky,” “is,” and “blue” rather than coming out with a competing argument that the sky is a different color. This is definitely a phenomenon that is hard to see at first because it is subtle, but once you notice it, it becomes obvious. One question to keep in mind is, “Is this poster just making others do a lot of work/citing/arguing without contributing a similar degree of effort?” ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/242 "2019-10-17T17:43:18Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > “Is Trump an asset of Russia?” is a question being debated contemporaneously with the US bombing its own military bases to deny Russia military secrets as the Russians overrun those same bases. > > But, yeah, this is ALLLLLLLL coincidence! We need proof greater than military movements and taken-over bases to even consider the question. Hey! You must be new here. Yes \*\*we \*\*do…I mean **you** do. I got to go. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/243 "2019-10-17T18:05:27Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Fine, I’ll accept this as something Putin would want. I was going for something way more substantial though. I mean, using this type of low standard, you could take anything Trump says or does and come up with _something_, some way to tie it to Putin. “I’ll concede that he’s weakening NATO, but I haven’t seen any reason to believe that _weakening weakening_ NATO.” ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/244 "2019-10-17T18:47:39Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > “I’ll concede that he’s weakening NATO, but I haven’t seen any reason to believe that _weakening weakening_ NATO.” I did not concede that Putin is weakening NATO. I agreed that Putin would want to make NATO less attractive. Now, if you want to make the argument this weakens NATO a great deal, fine. To me, that’s weak. That’s what I meant by something more substantial. For instance, countries actually pulling out. But I’m fine with your interpretation. Just don’t make up stuff and pretend I said it. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/245 "2019-10-17T18:54:38Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I did not concede that Putin is weakening NATO. I agreed that Putin would want to make NATO less attractive. Now, if you want to make the argument this weakens NATO a great deal, fine. To me, that’s weak. That’s what I meant by something more substantial. For instance, countries actually pulling out. But I’m fine with your interpretation. Just don’t make up stuff and pretend I said it. The antecedent to the pronoun ‘he’ in my post was Donald Trump. Donald Trump is weakening NATO. He hasn’t done enough yet to get any countries to actually pull out, but he has, and continues to, weaken NATO. I thought you were saying, “Sure Donald Trump is weakening NATO, but he’s not _weakening weakening_ NATO.” Honestly, I still think you are saying that. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/246 "2019-10-17T19:07:42Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But it is good that you are willing to say that you would admit it if you were wrong about how stupid Trump is. Okay, thanks I suppose, but I don’t think of myself as being “good” doing that, just honest. I’m not sure if you think I think Trump is stupid or not from that, but believe me, I know he is. > [@](#): > > I specifically said that he might not go that far. And I’m not saying that he’ll launch nukes because someone offers him a payment for it. But I am saying that he will do things in his selfish and shortsighted fashion that will increase the chances of a nuclear exchange breaking out. Thanks for the clarification. For the record, I didn’t really think you would think Trump essentially fine with nuclear war just so he could get a hotel built, it just came off that way. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Yeah, and that has been litigated and cited in this thread as to exactly where that information came from, and how much credence it should have. To try to call it a conspiracy theory is either a complete misunderstanding of the exchange in the thread, or a different use of the term than is typical. When I said **drad dog** had created a CT in my comment, okay, that was too far. It wasn’t a full on CT, but it I would suggest it was a pretty good start. The whole “brothers in power” thing. In any case, _I withdraw_ the CT theory. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/247 "2019-10-17T19:23:42Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > The antecedent to the pronoun ‘he’ in my post was Donald Trump. > > Donald Trump is weakening NATO. He hasn’t done enough yet to get any countries to actually pull out, but he has, and continues to, weaken NATO. > > I thought you were saying, “Sure Donald Trump is weakening NATO, but he’s not _weakening weakening_ NATO.” Honestly, I still think you are saying that. On that note: > **['Very aggressive': Trump suggests Montenegro could cause world war three](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/19/very-aggressive-trump-suggests-montenegro-could-cause-world-war-three)** > > The president also called into question the common defence principle of Nato in an interview with Fox News ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/248 "2019-10-17T19:24:16Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > The antecedent to the pronoun ‘he’ in my post was Donald Trump. > > Donald Trump is weakening NATO. He hasn’t done enough yet to get any countries to actually pull out, but he has, and continues to, weaken NATO. > > I thought you were saying, “Sure Donald Trump is weakening NATO, but he’s not _weakening weakening_ NATO.” Honestly, I still think you are saying that. To clarify, I responded to the first part of that sentence, and not the “weakening weakening” part, because I don’t know what you mean. Does it mean “really weakening NATO” or what? But your use of the word “honestly” suggests to me you think I’m being less than truthful. I don’t do that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/249 "2019-10-17T19:27:32Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > “Is Trump an asset of Russia?” is a question being debated contemporaneously with the US bombing its own military bases to deny Russia military secrets as the Russians overrun those same bases. > > But, yeah, this is ALLLLLLLL coincidence! We need proof greater than military movements and taken-over bases to even consider the question. I can’t help but think this is a snark directed to me. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Anyway, Trump can certainly be an asset of Russia even if he is not being blackmailed. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/250 "2019-10-17T19:43:08Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > But your use of the word “honestly” suggests to me you think I’m being less than truthful. That’s not what ‘honestly’ means. That’s bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/251 "2019-10-17T20:03:58Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > That’s not what ‘honestly’ means. That’s bizarre. If you plainly state what you think I was saying, I’ll tell you if you are right or wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/252 "2019-10-17T20:06:50Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > If you plainly state what you think I was saying, I’ll tell you if you are right or wrong. I think you are saying that you that Trump has weakened NATO, but not too much, so it’s not a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/253 "2019-10-17T20:21:21Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > I think you are saying that you that Trump has weakened NATO, but not too much, so it’s not a big deal. I would not say Trump has weakened it for the simple reason that I don’t know if NATO _has_ been weakened. But I am also not saying he hasn’t weakened it. I simply don’t know the strength of NATO relative to when Trump took office. As they say, that’s way above my pay grade. But if it has been weakened, it’s a big deal. Obviously, the more it’s been weakened, the bigger the deal. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/254 "2019-10-17T20:36:06Z")
Remember that list of things Trump has said and done with respect to NATO that you conceded were things Putin wanted because they made NATO membership less attractive? Well making NATO membership less attractive weakens NATO. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/255 "2019-10-17T20:55:50Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Remember that list of things Trump has said and done with respect to NATO that you conceded were things Putin wanted because they made NATO membership less attractive? Well making NATO membership less attractive weakens NATO. You say it weakens NATO. Fine. But I don’t know that to be true. Or untrue. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/256 "2019-10-17T20:58:19Z")
Right like, “It weakens NATO, but does it _weaken weaken_ NATO?” I’m picking up what you’re putting down. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/257 "2019-10-17T21:03:50Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Right like, “It weakens NATO, but does it _weaken weaken_ NATO?” > > I’m picking up what you’re putting down. I don’t know what “weaken weaken” means, and I posted this earlier: "I responded to the first part of that sentence, and **not the “weakening weakening” part, because I don’t know what you mean."** I’m not sure how much more there is to say here… ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/258 "2019-10-17T21:40:20Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > You say it weakens NATO. Fine. But I don’t know that to be true. Or untrue. NATO is not just military hardware, it is an organization of people. People are stronger when their morale is high. This is lowering morale. This is weakening NATO. If the allies in NATO cannot depend on eachother to come to their mutual aid, then NATO is broken. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/259 "2019-10-17T21:51:33Z")
If the argument is moved toward asking over and over about a definition for “weakening”, I will not be at all surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425/260 "2019-10-17T22:36:23Z")
I don’t think Putin needs to blackmail Trump (although he might be) to get him to do what he wants. He may just be using a combination of flattery and promises in their conversations. Trump knows absolutely nothing about geopolitical affairs. Putin does. He’s probably convinced Trump that he is not a bad guy at all, that he just wants to “whatever is necessary to find a peaceful solution to these problems.” That a Russian military presence in the Middle East “is a good thing” and that he and Trump will work together for the good of all mankind. Maybe they will get a Noble Prize together like Sadat and Begin. And, as an added bonus, Trump will be able to do hundreds of millions of dollars of business in Russia. Either one of those things would be enough for Trump to do whatever Putin wants. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-an-asset-of-russia-or-some-other-foreign-power/841425.md?page=14)