# Is Trump done? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 12, 2022, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776 "2022-11-12T04:54:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/61 "2022-11-13T04:54:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I would have blamed that on capitalism rather than democracy. Who promoted NAFTA and affirmed China’s “Most Favored Nation” trading status after the outrage over the Tiananmen Square Massacre? In the minds of most Americans, ‘democracy’ and ‘capitalism’ are intertwined although the United States doesn’t really have much of either. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/62 "2022-11-13T05:00:10Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Who promoted NAFTA and affirmed China’s “Most Favored Nation” trading status after the outrage over the Tiananmen Square Massacre? Capitalists, primarily. The capitalists won the political argument, but _someone_ always wins a political argument, whether the political system is democratic or authoritarian. An authoritarian government would probably have done the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/63 "2022-11-13T13:32:29Z")
Stranger, I think, has it. The traditional power bases are under threat which has been perceived for decades and is now starting to cut. THIS is the time to hold power. If they wait, it might erode away forever as demographic forces cut ever deeper. Combine this with the fact that the Democratic party is no friend of the American people. yes, I vote Dem because I have no choice and the alternative is far worse. It doesn’t change the fact that the Democratic party is no friend of the people. They have acted against the people with remarkable consistency over the years (as Stranger has noted). You wonder why the Democrats have trouble against this autocratic wave? It’s because the people know, consciously or unconsciously, that Dems promote corporations over people and have gut punched the American people over and over almost as much as the Republicans. When people have no way to go and they are being pushed down…they look for ANYTHING, especially a strongman, that will upset the system. The death of the Roman Republic comes to mind. Combine this with whenever the Dems get some sort of power, the left wing of the party (disclaimer…I am pretty left wing saying this) starts touting out things like reparations, affirmative action, help for the minorities etc. These are noble goals but many people don’t see it that way. They see THEY ARE TRYING TO HELP OTHERS BUT NOT ME. SO, THEY MUST BE MY ENEMY! You want more Trumpers? Just keep talking about promoting minorites, reparations, affirmative action etc. What they hear is “You will punish me to help them so I will fight you”. Every White guy that has been held back for promotion to promote a minority WHETHER THAT WAS THE REASON OR NOT will be perceived at that…and BANG…another Trumper is born. What should be framed as 'Help the downtrodden (which coincidentally will help minorities) would have gotten less pushback so long as it really was that. You want more Trumpers? This is how you get more Trumpers. People wonder why calling someone a racist no longer works. Well, it’s been used too often and sometimes as a cudgel. Use it too much…it loses its power. That is also what is happening. Now don’t slam the messenger as I consider myself pretty Progressive…but, for decades, I have been shouting into the wilderness about this. My advice to the Dems is to promote a race-blind Progressive agenda and hammer and hammer and hammer it. Progressive policies are usually very popular. However, Dems only really play lip service to it. Like raising the minimum wage…they make lip service to it but never REALLY try to make it happen. Hell, I actually believe they manipulate behind the scenes to make it NOT happen so they can shrug their shoulders and say “we tried” while successfully outsourcing jobs. Like I said, they promote Corporations and the rich and are not a friend to the American People. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/64 "2022-11-13T14:13:06Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Who promoted NAFTA and affirmed China’s “Most Favored Nation” trading status after the outrage over the Tiananmen Square Massacre? > > In the minds of most Americans, ‘democracy’ and ‘capitalism’ are intertwined although the United States doesn’t really have much of either. If what you’re saying is that Democrats aren’t really our friends because they have consistently favored the interests of the rich over everyone else … I can’t disagree with that. However, whose fault is that? Over the last 50, 60, 80 years, voters could have pushed Democrats or Republicans or both on the direction of policies that would have benefited them had they voted for more pro-labor and more progressive candidates. Just like with the Republicans, the Democrats have been shitty to the extent that the voters have allowed them to be shitty. You’re mad that there aren’t more Bernies among the Democrats now? Why didn’t you support the Bernies in your local and state parties? Of course, part of the reason is that they think Bernie is an atheist leftist pinko commie and that’s why they didn’t do that. But again … whose fault is that? In my view, the person deciding to eat the bullshit served by bullshitters has at least some responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/65 "2022-11-13T14:47:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So what? Trump may have a lock on his base but he will never again move beyond his base. And his base by itself is not strong enough to put him back in office. True- but his base is quite sufficient to get him re-nominated, as witnessed by the crazy train of terrible GOP candidates in 2022. We could see a repeat of 2016 where there are a boatload of sane candidates on one crazy one and, unlike the Dems, the sane candidates can’t agree on who to support and refuse to drop out. Combine that with the winner-take-all nature of many GOP primaries, and he coasts to the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/66 "2022-11-13T15:07:51Z")
In a gratuitous moment of devil’s advocacy, I mentioned to my wife that the R’s might want to bumper-sticker-and-campaign-button “I won’t be woke if it means being broke.” I’ve long said that the D’s offer America brussel sprouts – what’s good for us and what we _should_ be eating – while the R’s hawk M&M’s. And I _really_ like M&M’s, but I tend to do and eat what I know is good for me. Carter wanted us to wear sweaters. Obama offered us tire pressure gauges to help our MPG and the fossil fuel situation. Trump is a straight-out-of-central-casting M&M’s factory rep. The current Rs have the answer to absolutely nothing – not our actual problems; not even the ‘made up from whole cloth’ bullshit that they sell wholesale. But … M&M’s. Yum. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/67 "2022-11-13T15:54:38Z")
> [@Jaycat.again](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > He’s not done. Which is bad news for everyone including the Republican Party. A DeSantis vs Biden race is an easy win for DeSantis. Trump vs Biden is another toss up with Trump losing the popular vote and it being uncomfortably tight in battle ground states. > > I disagree. DeSantis has no charisma, which is all Trump ever had. > > Best case scenario: DeSantis gets the nomination and Trump runs as a third party candidate, thus splitting the red vote. DeSantis doesn’t need charisma. He needs to look young and competent. Close your eyes and think of a DeSantis/Biden debate. If you don’t hold your breath whenever Biden has a microphone in front of him you are fooling yourself. If the economy was going well it might not matter. It never matters who’s at fault for the economy. Bad economy plus bumbling Biden minus never Trump voters equals an easy DeSantis win. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/68 "2022-11-13T18:34:29Z")
By “preparation” I did not mean to imply any Individual was diligently preparing for his MCATs, learning a foreign language, puzzling over the deeper foreign policy questions of how to support global democracy, mastering the finer points of embroidery nor questioning the philosophical basis of ethical behaviour or metaphysical growth in an imperfect world. But my guess is that lies become easier to tell the more often you do, that repeating them teaches you something about propaganda, that it is easier to devalue good people when you do so with regularity and without reflection or conscience, that one learns that bragging is acceptable to many people if they think you have the experience and/or resources to justify it regardless of whether this is so, that sycophancy is addictive, that one can _epater_ the media along with the bourgeoisie, and that rules and sensible traditions are malleable, even optional, though others may not see this. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/69 "2022-11-13T18:43:06Z")
I dunno’ maybe we should stick a fork in him? A great big sharp fork. Hee hee 😈 ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/70 "2022-11-13T18:53:30Z")
Blast! Should have read the whole thread before I posted almost that same comment at the end. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/71 "2022-11-13T19:16:48Z")
> [@Sylvanz](#): > > I dunno’ maybe we should stick a fork in him? A great big sharp fork. Hee hee _It’s like what my painter friend Donald said to me_ _“Stick a fork in their ass and turn 'em over, they’re done”_ [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/xTlsSXNT2bg/hqdefault.jpg "Lou Reed - Last Great American Whale - New York Album") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTlsSXNT2bg) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/72 "2022-11-13T19:21:21Z")
I am often wrong. But no doubt the Individual was studying mindfulness and reaping the benefits of volunteering and philanthropy, given his involvement in charity work. It’s been shown to help health, and everyone knows how much that matters to some people. [Health benefits of a random act of kindness | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/13/health/acts-of-kindness-health-benefits-wellness/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/73 "2022-11-13T19:32:40Z")
23% of Americans have recently had a strongly favourable view of Trump. 20% of Americans have recently had a somewhat favourable view of Trump. But don’t take my word for it… > **[September 2022 Times/Siena Poll: Cross-Tabs for All Respondents](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/09/16/upshot/september-2022-times-siena-poll-crosstabs.html)** > > Responses from a survey of registered voters conducted by The New York Times and Siena College Sept. 6 to 14, 2022. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/74 "2022-11-13T19:38:45Z")
Trump isn’t a wild card. He’s a known known. He’s not done until he’s dead, because the only thing he has is his audience. He’s utterly hollow and has to be filled with other people’s adulation to live. Republicans are what, around a third of the electorate? And somewhere around half of them believe Trump is GodKing.That’s enough to be a spoiler but not enough to win anything. The rest of them can be persuaded to vote for someone else, or to sit out elections because they don’t like any of the candidates. The critical voices here are not Trump, or his brownshirt wanna-bes. It’s the Republican decision-makers. Right now, they are witnessing the one thing that makes them pay attention: votes. People voted against all the Trump proxies. _Republicans_ voted against them. If Trump can’t get his proxies elected, he is politically nothing. Doors will slam in his face. It won’t matter how rabid his rallies are. No one will care. As for a DeSantis vs Biden matchup? That’s a political lightyear away. Biden might defer to a rising star, like Buttigieg or Wittmer. DeSantis might crash and burn. Who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/75 "2022-11-13T19:46:41Z")
I actually do not know much about DeSantis. **A majority of “strong Republicans” still prefer Trump.** > **[New poll finds Ron DeSantis has 7-point edge over Trump in 2024 presidential...](https://nypost.com/2022/11/12/new-primary-poll-finds-desantis-has-edge-over-trump-in-2024/)** > > A new national poll gives Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis a 7-point edge over former President Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/76 "2022-11-13T20:01:01Z")
Of course there are always the wishful thinkers, but one can hope. > **[Opinion | Forget DeSantis. Whitmer and Shapiro are defining the future.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/11/12/gretchen-whitmer-josh-shapiro-ron-desantis-big-winners/)** > > Like Ron DeSantis, two Democrats, Gretchen Whitmer and Josh Shapiro, won landslides in states that Trump carried in 2016. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/77 "2022-11-13T20:05:59Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Trump is not done. How many times has he been declared so? When he started running, the party apparatus was completely against him. Years after his Presidency, he still has substantial support, and thus boggles the imagination given his views on respecting tradition, legal norms and alleged Republican touchstones. This guy agrees with you > **[Is this the end of our national Trump bender? Yeah, we've heard that one before](https://www.salon.com/2022/11/12/is-this-the-end-of-our-national-bender-yeah-weve-heard-that-one-before/)** > > It's a familiar refrain: Dammit, surely he's finished now! I hate to say it, but he'll probably survive this too ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/78 "2022-11-13T21:31:52Z")
Heh heh. I just have to share a line from an essay by John Cassidy in The New Yorker: > And Trump himself is again making unfounded accusations of election fraud—and, perhaps, even subatomic manipulations against his favored candidates. In a Saturday post on his Truth Social site, he said, “They stole the Electron from Blake Masters.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/79 "2022-11-13T21:35:45Z")
Is he positive? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776/80 "2022-11-13T21:42:30Z")
The Infinite Wisdom of Donald J. Trump. No charge. ETA: Yeah. I know. Negative charge. Work with me 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-done/974776.md?page=5)