# Is Trump going to Phoonix to pardon Joe Arpaio? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 22, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376 "2017-08-22T16:21:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/61 "2017-08-23T13:02:14Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > No “authorization” is needed, AFAIU, to just blast a song at a rally at a public arena. > > Every big arena already has a “public performance” license with every organization that covers all the popular songs. The performer can sue under several laws to claim that playing of the song damages his “image” or suggests his endorsement for the candidacy, but I would suspect after spending lots of $ on the suit he will lose if the song was just played before the rally. > [@](#): > > Technically speaking, copyright laws allow political candidates to use just about any song they want, as long as they’re played at a stadium, arena or other venue that already has a public-performance license through a songwriters’ association such as ASCAP or BMI. However, the law contains plenty of gray area. If a candidate refuses to stop using a song in this scenario, an artist may be able to protect his “right of publicity” – Springsteen’s voice blaring over a loudspeaker is part of his image, and he has a right to protect his own image. “It’s untested in the political realm,” says Lawrence Iser, an intellectual-property lawyer who has represented the Beatles, Michael Jackson and many others. “Even if Donald Trump has the ASCAP right to use a Neil Young song, does Neil have the right to nevertheless go after him on right of publicity? I say he does.” > > **Iser represented David Byrne when the ex-Talking Head successfully sued Florida Republican Charlie Crist for using “Road to Nowhere” in a video to attack opponent Marco Rubio during a 2010 U.S. Senate campaign. He also helped Jackson Browne win a suit against John McCain in 2008 when the Republican presidential candidate played “Running on Empty” in an ad bashing Barack Obama on gas conservation.** It seems that bands sometimes do win. > **[Why Politicians Keep Using Songs Without Artists' Permission](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/why-politicians-keep-using-songs-without-artists-permission-36386/)** > > A look inside the recurring controversy of campaign music and why politicians keep using songs without artists' permission. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/62 "2017-08-23T13:17:18Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > It seems that bands sometimes do win. > > [Why Politicians Keep Using Songs Without Artists' Permission](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-politicians-keep-using-songs-without-artists-permission-20150709) Note that the “wins” are about ads. That’s very different from just playing a song at a rally, which is what I was talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/63 "2017-08-23T15:17:16Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Not surprising as it’s been billed as a campaign rally from the start. Yep, he filed re-election papers about 5 hours after the inauguration so he could start collecting that sweet sweet campaign money. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/64 "2017-08-26T00:27:24Z")
Well, Trump did it. Pardoned. > **[President Trump Just Pardoned Joe Arpaio](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/trump-pardon-arpaio/537729/)** > > Trump picked the notorious Arizona lawman for his first-ever act of presidential absolution. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/65 "2017-08-26T00:29:56Z")
Just in case you weren’t sure if Trump was a white supremacist. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/66 "2017-08-26T00:38:20Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Just in case you weren’t sure if Trump was a white supremacist. I’m pretty sure he’s a Trump supremacist. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/67 "2017-08-26T00:41:33Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I’m pretty sure he’s a Trump supremacist. Arpaio was a disgrace to law enforcement. You should feel embarassed. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/68 "2017-08-26T01:06:29Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Arpaio was a disgrace to law enforcement. You should feel embarassed. I should feel embarrassed how? What the hell do I have to do with it? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/69 "2017-08-26T01:30:15Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Well, Trump did it. Pardoned. > > [President Trump Pardoned Joe Arpaio - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/trump-pardon-arpaio/537729/) Is a pardon for a misdemeanor considered a first? Arpaio is out of office and that’s a good thing. The voters finally saw him for what he really is. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/70 "2017-08-26T01:35:08Z")
I read someplace, and this really gets into GD territory, that a pardon for contempt of court really undermines the justice system. Contempt of court is really all the judicial branch has to enforce their edicts, so if the executive branch overrides that, we’re in some very strange territory. The article (probably in the NY Times) seemed to lay out a case that it’s possible that the president can’t pardon someone for contempt, and that the judiciary might decide to step in and override it. That seems unlikely to me, but I’m interested in any case history or just our legal eagles’ opinions. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/71 "2017-08-26T01:36:09Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Is a pardon for a misdemeanor considered a first? > > Arpaio is out of office and that’s a good thing. The voters finally saw him for what he really is. Yup, a racist person who abused his power. Just like the president. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/72 "2017-08-26T01:39:20Z")
I doubt we’ll see any more pardons for contempt of court. The average joe better not hold their breath waiting for their governor or the President to issue a pardon. They are very rare. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/73 "2017-08-26T01:42:30Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I doubt we’ll see any more pardons for contempt of court. > > The average joe better not hold their breath waiting for their governor or the President to issue a pardon. They are very rare. If Flynn or Manafort decide not to turn over files or to testify and get cited for contempt, you don’t think they’ll be pardoned? What about if his son or Kushner end up defying the court? You know what? I’m not really good at posting in MPSIMS, so I’ll just step out now. I’m still interested in our resident lawyers’ opinions, so I’ll follow along, but I probably won’t post more here. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/74 "2017-08-26T01:53:43Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I read someplace, and this really gets into GD territory, that a pardon for contempt of court really undermines the justice system. Contempt of court is really all the judicial branch has to enforce their edicts, so if the executive branch overrides that, we’re in some very strange territory. > > The article (probably in the NY Times) seemed to lay out a case that it’s possible that the president can’t pardon someone for contempt, and that the judiciary might decide to step in and override it. That seems unlikely to me, but I’m interested in any case history or just our legal eagles’ opinions. That sounds like they are making shit up. The constitution says the president can pardon for all federal crimes except in cases of impeachment. There isn’t an asterix for contempt. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/75 "2017-08-26T02:03:00Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That sounds like they are making shit up. The constitution says the president can pardon for all federal crimes except in cases of impeachment. There isn’t an asterix for contempt. I know I flounced out of this thread, but here’s the article: > **[Opinion | A Pardon for Arpaio Would Put Trump in Uncharted Territory...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/24/opinion/trump-arpaio-pardon-arizona-sheriff.html)** > > If the president can immunize government agents who violate constitutional rights, there will be no limit on his power. I think the idea is that contempt is not like other crimes. Other laws are created by the legislature and decided upon by the judicial. Contempt is the judiciary’s own thing, and you can be jailed for it without even having a trial (not the case here, of course, since there was a trial). I thought it was an interesting article. Anyway, I’m not a law-talking guy, so I’m going to re-flounce. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/76 "2017-08-26T02:05:52Z")
The argument that this pardon was illegal seems like it was invented within the last month or so. It’s like the birthers who ultimately decided that “natural born citizen” means that both parents must have been born in the USA. Nobody thought that before 2008, and I suspect that nobody thought that criminal contempt couldn’t be pardoned before 2017. The _motivation_ is more pure, but the reasoning is not. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/77 "2017-08-26T02:15:00Z")
Is Arizona in flames yet? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/78 "2017-08-26T02:17:04Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > The argument that this pardon was illegal seems like it was invented within the last month or so. It’s like the birthers who ultimately decided that “natural born citizen” means that both parents must have been born in the USA. Nobody thought that before 2008, and I suspect that nobody thought that criminal contempt couldn’t be pardoned before 2017. The _motivation_ is more pure, but the reasoning is not. That’s what it sounds like to me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/79 "2017-08-26T03:26:01Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That sounds like they are making shit up. The constitution says the president can pardon for all federal crimes except in cases of impeachment. There isn’t an asterix for contempt. The constitution says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press” There isn’t an asterix for “yelling fire in a crowded theater” or “commercial speech”. I think the idea is nutty for reasons of the existing jurisprudence (or lack thereof) on the subject. But just because the plain text of the Constitution doesn’t say something doesn’t mean that “something” can’t be read into it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376/80 "2017-08-26T03:31:58Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Is Arizona in flames yet? I think a lot is tampered by the fact that Arizonans voted the old foggy out of office back in November. The anger is indeed better directed to the Cheeto in Chief that I’m sure thinks that the group of people cheering him in the rally was the majority of Arizonans. And that most of the American people agree with the abuses that Arpaio did and the ones Trump is doing now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-going-to-phoonix-to-pardon-joe-arpaio/794376.md?page=5)