# Is Trump, plain and simple, a traitor to his country? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 18, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154 "2018-07-18T16:37:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/1 "2018-07-18T16:37:32Z")
I don’t mean a metaphorical traitor to specific values, or to the people who support him (despite the harm that will eventually befall them from his policies). I mean, is he literally acting on Russia’s behalf to undermine the United States? And, if so, what should happen? ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/2 "2018-07-18T16:45:46Z")
Trump is literally a traitor. His goal from the start was to eliminate sanctions on Russia for reasons we can only guess at. He literally refuses to criticise or condemn Russia’s interference in our democracy, and consistently support’s Putin’s interests while attacking our allies. Trump is indisputably a traitor to our country. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/3 "2018-07-18T16:47:21Z")
Nevermind, I see the question has been asked and answered. (ETA: Oh, the “what should happen” part wasn’t. The penalty for being a traitor should be applied, unless it’s the death penalty. In that case just regular old prison.) ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/4 "2018-07-18T16:59:05Z")
I am not sure about “letter of the law” traitor but I am amazed at both his actions and the faction of people who are so blinded by playing for Team Red that they refuse to see how his interests far exceed his loyalty to our country, our people and the constitution. I remember rolling my eyes as a kid and young man at my fathers comments about the decline of standards, morals and the greed of politicans. And while I know much of this has existed for a long time, Trump does not even try to hide his corruption. Maybe his “honesty” is what we need for the next 2 years to wake people up… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/5 "2018-07-18T16:59:54Z")
Well, sure, if he’s genuinely a traitor and if I had a magic wand, he’d be instantly and permanently transported to a supermax prison. But what I hope Dopers will help me explore here is, how do we demonstrate that he’s a traitor to those with the power to do something about it, and then what steps should those people take? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/6 "2018-07-18T17:03:14Z")
No, he isn’t literally a traitor. He’s an idiot who loves authoritarians, and wants to be one. Frankly, he’s probably too dumb to have an informed opinion on the Constitution, so I have a hard time thinking that he is actively betraying it. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/7 "2018-07-18T17:04:58Z")
by the 50s definition yes ……if you read the old 50s screed “none dare call it treason” a lot of it applies …… ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/8 "2018-07-18T17:05:53Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > I don’t mean a metaphorical traitor to specific values, or to the people who support him (despite the harm that will eventually befall them from his policies). > > I mean, is he literally acting on Russia’s behalf to undermine the United States? No. He’s not acting on Russia’s behalf, and he’s not undermining the United States. > [@](#): > > And, if so, what should happen? Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/9 "2018-07-18T17:06:44Z")
He has financial incentives to cozy up with Russia. He’s willing to do that, even when it’s not in the interest of the United States. You could call that the actions of a traitor. Not sure the label matters, he’s a major asshole and incompetent president. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/10 "2018-07-18T17:07:13Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > No, he isn’t literally a traitor. He’s an idiot who loves authoritarians, and wants to be one. > > Frankly, he’s probably too dumb to have an informed opinion on the Constitution, so I have a hard time thinking that he is actively betraying it. This. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/11 "2018-07-18T17:15:25Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > No. He’s not acting on Russia’s behalf, and he’s not undermining the United States. I don’t think he is deliberately aiding Russia in mounting a takeover of the U.S. But he is definitely taking actions that are more in Russia’s interests than the U.S., and he most definitely undermining the United States in his international dealings. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/12 "2018-07-18T17:19:19Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I don’t think he is deliberately aiding Russia in mounting a takeover of the U.S. But he is definitely taking actions that are more in Russia’s interests than the U.S., and he most definitely undermining the United States in his international dealings. I agree a lot with this, but I err toward concluding that incompetence, rather than malevolence, is the reason. I just can’t see that incompetence equates to treason. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/13 "2018-07-18T17:19:25Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This. No. It isn’t that he is too dumb to be a traitor. It is that he doesn’t give a flying fuck whether he is a traitor, as long as he gets his. The man is immoral. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/14 "2018-07-18T17:22:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No. It isn’t that he is too dumb to be a traitor. It is that he doesn’t give a flying fuck whether he is a traitor, as long as he gets his. The man is immoral. Sure, I can go with that too. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/15 "2018-07-18T17:26:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No. It isn’t that he is too dumb to be a traitor. It is that he doesn’t give a flying fuck whether he is a traitor, as long as he gets his. The man is immoral. True – but if, while “getting his,” he boosts the strength of a foreign nation while weakening that of the US, doesn’t that make him a traitor? Who cares what his motivation is? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/16 "2018-07-18T17:30:39Z")
Nothing in his life suggests anything other than an entitled, egotistical, narcissist. He has loyalty only to himself so from his POV he only has to worry about pleasing himself. For him, the concept of “traitor” is only useful as a label he can apply to others in order to further benefit himself. I have not the slightest doubt whatsoever that only a quirk of birth and the restrictions of a democratic society have prevented him from becoming a gold-plating, harem-hoarding, dissenter-torturing dictator. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/17 "2018-07-18T17:31:21Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > True – but if, while “getting his,” he boosts the strength of a foreign nation while weakening that of the US, doesn’t that make him a traitor? Who cares what his motivation is? I was just disagreeing with the idea that he is too stupid to be a traitor. He is a traitor…but if nothing is done about it(and nothing _will_ be done) he doesn’t, and has no need to, care about it. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/18 "2018-07-18T17:36:44Z")
No, he isn’t a traitor. But plain and simple is a good description of him. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/19 "2018-07-18T17:43:28Z")
**YES** That’s as plain and simple as it gets. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154/20 "2018-07-18T17:47:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I was just disagreeing with the idea that he is too stupid to be a traitor. He is a traitor…but if nothing is done about it(and nothing _will_ be done) he doesn’t, and has no need to, care about it. Why will nothing be done? The farce in Finland pretty clearly demonstrates where his interests lie. The Mueller probe may yet connect the dots. Faced with impossible-to-refute evidence of actual treason, will congress truly do nothing? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plain-and-simple-a-traitor-to-his-country/818154.md?page=2)