# Is Trump plotting a judiciary coup? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2020, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plotting-a-judiciary-coup/921418 "2020-09-24T14:25:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2020, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plotting-a-judiciary-coup/921418/81 "2020-09-27T11:43:03Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > According to [this whitepaper](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e70e52c7c72720ed714313f/t/5f625c790cef066e940ea42d/1600281722253/State_Legislature_Paper.pdf) that I found linked from [this article](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-biden-electoral-college-electors-plan-loyalists-swing-states-2020-9), federal law says that states may not change their process for choosing electors after election day. The whitepaper says: > While the Constitution gives states, through their legislatures, the power to choose the manner for appointing electors, it delegates to Congress the power “to determine the time of chusing Electors.” U.S. Const. art II, § I, cl. 4. Congress, in turn, has provided that all states must appoint their electors on the “Tuesday after the first Monday in November, in every fourth year succeeding every election of a President and Vice President”—which falls on November 3rd this year. 3 U.S.C. § 1 > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > The way its more likely to go down, is that there are 32 assertions of fraud, voter intimidation, and election irregularities, put forth by both sides that are working their way up and down the courts. Mmeanwhile the deadline December 14th deadline to select electors in time to comply with current election law, and so reluctantly the state legislature has to step in and do their constitutional duty to decide the issue and select the electors, and Lo and behold, each member of the legislature finds that the facts of the case align perfectly with their political party (what an amazing coincidence), so all the electors go to Trump. This. The process of ‘chusing’ the electors will have happened on (and in the days leading up to) November 3, but the outcome of that ‘chusing’ will have been sufficiently muddled and challenged and disputed that there will be a bullshit argument that the state legislature needs to step in and resolve it. And they’ll resolve it in favor of Trump. The legal case for them being able to do so doesn’t need to be anywhere near solid; look at the bullshit argument for killing the ACA that the Supreme Court will be hearing oral arguments about, just one week after the election. It just needs to give a patina of legitimacy to the courts’ considering it and ultimately deciding in its favor. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2020, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plotting-a-judiciary-coup/921418/82 "2020-09-27T11:45:36Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > A 6-3 majority wouldn’t be enough. Roberts is all but certain to defect on this rather than let Trump play unconstitutional tyrant, and there is a good chance Gorsuch or Kavanaugh will switch over too. It would be 5-4 in favor of the D’s. I hope you’re right, but I wouldn’t want to bet the future of the Republic on it. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2020, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plotting-a-judiciary-coup/921418/83 "2020-09-27T14:33:30Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I don’t know about that. The Constitution specifies the _legislature_ , which seems to take the governor out of play. And the legislature’s action now would supersede their previous decisions. I could be wrong about this, but wouldn’t the governors have veto power over any legislation? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plotting-a-judiciary-coup/921418/84 "2020-09-27T14:44:06Z")
I am skeptical that even John Roberts would stop an executive directed federal intervention in an election. Scalia’s conservative court pretty much set the precedent that the judiciary can and will get involved on the side of executive intervention, on grounds of defending the “equal protection” clause. Conservatives have an ironic love of equality when it serves their purposes. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plotting-a-judiciary-coup/921418/85 "2020-09-27T14:58:41Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > According to [this whitepaper](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e70e52c7c72720ed714313f/t/5f625c790cef066e940ea42d/1600281722253/State_Legislature_Paper.pdf) that I found linked from [this article](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-biden-electoral-college-electors-plan-loyalists-swing-states-2020-9), federal law says that states may not change their process for choosing electors after election day. In the whitepaper I read this: > Congress, in turn, has provided that all states must appoint their electors on the “Tuesday after the first Monday > in November To me this reads as saying that states must appoint their electors on election day. Not before and not after. That would mean that whoever is ahead at 11:59:59 on Nov 3, 2020 wins the election. But surely that cant be right. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2020, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plotting-a-judiciary-coup/921418/86 "2020-09-27T15:08:26Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > To me this reads as saying that states must appoint their electors on election day. Not before and not after. That would mean that whoever is ahead at 11:59:59 on Nov 3, 2020 wins the election. But surely that cant be right. I’m pretty sure that won’t happen - there is a ton of precedent for allowing delays for mail-in votes to come in and for recounts to take place as long as they don’t push past the safe-harbor point and everything is based on trying to center the process around the election date. I’m a bit worried about the time period in between election day and when the last mail-in ballot can be counted - I’m not sure if the full range of state power has been tested there, and I do think a lot of other posters are right that as flimsy as it is, the idea of a lawsuit over mail-in ballots might be the excuse they use to just call their own elections. I also don’t put it past the SCOTUS to just completely overturn precedent in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plotting-a-judiciary-coup/921418/87 "2020-10-02T15:45:06Z")
Turns out there were [no ballots in a ditch in Wisconsin](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/01/mail-found-greenville-ditch-did-not-include-any-wisconsin-ballots/5883960002/). Can’t believe that turned out to be a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plotting-a-judiciary-coup/921418/88 "2020-10-04T21:01:33Z")
What, the Republicans told a lie. Who woulda thunk it? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2020, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plotting-a-judiciary-coup/921418/89 "2020-10-05T01:52:22Z")
Your are correct, it’s not right. “Appointing” means having the election. The actual date where the specific electors are chosen is whenever the votes are counted. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plotting-a-judiciary-coup/921418/90 "2020-10-08T15:47:24Z")
Not sure if this should go here or one of the Pit threads, but here is Senator Mike Lee (R-UT) on Twitter today: > [@Mike Lee](#): > > Democracy isn’t the objective; liberty, peace, and prospefity are. We want the human condition to flourish. Rank democracy can thwart that. (and yes, the typo is his) So there is at least one Senator completely on-board with the Trump/Pence plan to use the courts to overturn the will of the people. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plotting-a-judiciary-coup/921418/91 "2020-10-10T22:35:59Z")
Only I can produce liberty, peace, and prospefity (leading to covfefe). So appoint me dictator. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-plotting-a-judiciary-coup/921418.md?page=4)