# Is Trump threatening to seize the Panama Canal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [December 22, 2024, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000 "2024-12-22T01:31:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/21 "2024-12-22T22:59:06Z")
> **['We'll see about that!' Trump issues vague threat to President of Panama...](https://www.rawstory.com/trump-vague-panama-threat/)** > > Donald Trump on Sunday once again reaffirmed his desire to take back the Panama Canal. > > "We will demand that the Panama Canal be returned," Trump declared a day earlier. He took to his own social media site, Truth Social, to issue a threat to local... Forget it, he’s rolling. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/22 "2024-12-22T23:11:58Z")
Wasn’t it a limited-time deal that gave the US control of the Canal Zone in the first place, and that time just came up during Carter’s term? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/23 "2024-12-22T23:17:04Z")
The US has a national interest in a working Panama canal. Luckily so do the Panamanians. Indeed, they expanded the canal a decade ago to accommodate bigger container ships. Then drought struck, limiting the number of ships that could transit. So they raised rates from half a million to 1 million. Then they decided to just auction off slots, and let the free market decide what to do. Shippers could always use the US land route or Tierra Del Fuego if they weren’t willing to bid more than other shippers. Rates for a big container ship are now up to $1.5 million, and shippers are whining. Apparently one of them caught Trump’s ear. All this shows that conservative love for the free market is highly qualified. > **[Panama is the latest country in Donald Trump’s gunsights - Kevin Drum](https://jabberwocking.com/panama-is-the-latest-country-in-donald-trumps-gunsights/)** > > You have to hand it to Donald Trump: no matter what kind of shit sandwich he happens to be eating at any given time (currently on the menu: getting played on the CR and the debt ceiling), he comes up with some kind of freakish distraction. Tonight... ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/24 "2024-12-22T23:25:03Z")
A rather fanciful Plan B has long been in the making: > **[Attempts to build a canal across Nicaragua](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempts_to_build_a_canal_across_Nicaragua)** > > Attempts to build a canal across Nicaragua to connect the Atlantic Ocean with the Pacific Ocean stretch back to the early colonial era. Construction of such a shipping route—using the San Juan River as an access route to Lake Nicaragua—was first proposed then. Napoleon III wrote an article about its feasibility in the middle of the 19th century. The United States abandoned plans to construct a waterway in Nicaragua in the early 20th century after it purchased the French interests in the Panama... Can you dig it? I knew that you could. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/25 "2024-12-22T23:27:50Z")
Why do I get the sense that Trump worries about the stupidest things? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/26 "2024-12-22T23:40:42Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Rates for a big container ship are now up to $1.5 million, and shippers are whining. Apparently one of them caught Trump’s ear. So Trump wants the government to control the price of goods and services instead of the free market? I could swear there’s a word for that kind of economic model. And I wonder who he knows that might have an interest in cutting the cost of shipping, let’s say, Chinese electronic auto components to factories located in, let’s say, Texas or something… [![](https://media.wired.com/photos/5b92e26221429f5914431497/1:1/w_1255,h_1255,c_limit/ElonMusk-JoeRoganShow.jpg) ](https://media.wired.com/photos/5b92e26221429f5914431497/1:1/w_1255,h_1255,c_limit/ElonMusk-JoeRoganShow.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/27 "2024-12-23T00:03:19Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > For historical context, many (most?) Americans considered giving control of the Panama Canal to Panama as a mistake when Carter did it in 1977. For a context more resembling reality, more (most) Americans when told that Carter gave Panama control of the Panama Canal way back in 1977 react thusly: “_Who_ gave _what_ to _who_??”, and then go on with their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Apodder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apodder/32/17727_2.png) [@Apodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apodder)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/28 "2024-12-23T00:31:22Z")
Here I thought he was supposed to be the First Lady. ---
**Author:** ![rippingtons\_fan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rippingtons_fan/32/11767_2.png) [@rippingtons\_fan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rippingtons_fan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/29 "2024-12-23T00:48:20Z")
If Trump did try to forcibly seize the Panama Canal in a war, what would the repercussions be? Since he supports the Russians in their invasion of Ukraine, would he use that to justify his invasion of Panama? (It’s OK for one nation to invade another?) How would other nations react? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/30 "2024-12-23T00:55:40Z")
What if the Panama government blew up the locks? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/31 "2024-12-23T00:59:36Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > Also, strategically the canal is not that important to the US military as it was when first built (and anyway, the big US navy ships don’t fit through the canal anymore). I would assume Trump is more interested in lining his pockets with the fees the ships pay to get through it a lot more than any military strategy. IIRC, that can be anywhere from a few thousand to well over a hundred thousand (depending on size) per ship. Also, he’d have the ability, or assume he’d have the ability to hold the canal hostage for one reason or another. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > What if the Panama government blew up the locks? He’d make Mexico pay to fix them? /s ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/32 "2024-12-23T01:01:29Z")
I think part of what’s driving it is that the Chinese government now has a contract with the Panama government to operate the ports at each end. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/33 "2024-12-23T01:22:11Z")
Were those contracts entered into while Trump was president? I wonder why he didn’t care about the canal back then. Oh, who am I kidding? He didn’t even know about it until last week. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/34 "2024-12-23T01:30:06Z")
Trump routinely spouts crazy stuff when he wants the news cycle to move on from his cock-ups. In this case, he’s trying to paper over the fact that he and Musk almost blundered into a governmental shutdown, due to intemperate remarks and incompetent negotiation. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/35 "2024-12-23T01:35:49Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I think part of what’s driving it is that the Chinese government now has a contract with the Panama government to operate the ports at each end. Yup, China’s growing influence on the canal has been a concern for the US for years, his response to the issue is insane. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/36 "2024-12-23T03:26:36Z")
Here’s a useful article outlining the concerns expressed by some American commentators (non-crazy types). > **[Why the Panama Canal is so Important to Trump ](https://www.freightwaves.com/news/why-the-panama-canal-is-so-important-to-trump)** > > The Panama Canal, a marvel of engineering and a critical artery of global trade has once again become the center of geopolitical tension. > [@JoseB](#): > > Also, strategically the canal is not that important to the US military as it was when first built (and anyway, the big US navy ships don’t fit through the canal anymore). The article makes the point that the Canal has considerable economic value to the United States and its economy, so it may not be military strategy that is in play. Plus, China spying. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/37 "2024-12-23T04:43:07Z")
[![](https://media.wired.com/photos/5b92e26221429f5914431497/1:1/w_1255,h_1255,c_limit/ElonMusk-JoeRoganShow.jpg) ](https://media.wired.com/photos/5b92e26221429f5914431497/1:1/w_1255,h_1255,c_limit/ElonMusk-JoeRoganShow.jpg) “a man, a plan, a canal, what was I talking about?” ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/38 "2024-12-23T05:07:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wasn’t it a limited-time deal that gave the US control of the Canal Zone in the first place, and that time just came up during Carter’s term? No. Carter’s administration negotiated a treaty that started the process in 1977 finally ending in with Panama’s full control of the canal in 1999. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > For a context more resembling reality, more (most) Americans when told that Carter gave Panama control of the Panama Canal way back in 1977 react thusly: “_Who_ gave _what_ to _who_??”, and then go on with their lives. Not really. It was a huge deal back then. I think you are misremembering it. And for even MORE historical context, the canal zone & control of the canal was given to the United States by Panama in exchange for US support of their declaring independence from Colombia in 1903. So it wasn’t ever “stolen” from Panama. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/39 "2024-12-23T05:59:39Z")
So if I’ve got this right, Trump’s foreign policy agenda is; - Reconquista of the Canal Zone - Annex Canada - Buy Greenland whether Denmark wants to sell it or not - Bomb Mexico and declare its citizens an invading army - “Unleash all hell” on anyone supporting Hamas - No new wars Am I forgetting anything? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000/40 "2024-12-23T06:41:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Am I forgetting anything? Bomb Puerto Rico with paper towels. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-threatening-to-seize-the-panama-canal/1012000.md?page=3)