# Is Untreated Cancer Always Fatal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 29, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473 "2015-07-29T14:25:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marion\_Wormer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d07c76/32.png) [@Marion\_Wormer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marion_Wormer)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/21 "2015-07-29T22:56:36Z")
This is a possibility that as much of a third of the population is walking around with some form of thyroid cancer. They found this out by conducting autopsies and finding that 36 out of a 100 bodies had some form of thyroid cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/22 "2015-07-29T23:08:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Hangnails are self-limited conditions that almost always resolve on their own. Many disorders and conditions don’t kill. > > Or am I missing something in your statement? Bob gets a hangnail. Sixty years later, he gets hit by a bus. The hangnail didn’t kill him, but the bus did. Since the hangnail death hadn’t happened yet, it’s accurate to say that something else killed him first. Mary gets a hangnail. It ends up getting infected, leading eventually to sepsis. She dies of her hangnail. Frank gets a hangnail. It gets infected and leads to sepsis, but the ambulance rushing him to the hospital is too careless, and goes over a cliff, killing all on board. Something else killed Frank before his hangnail could. Now, Bob’s situation is far, far more common than Mary’s or Frank’s, but all are possible. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/23 "2015-07-29T23:10:32Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Or am I missing something in your statement? Bayesian probability. If you are killed by something and you are not killed by something other than a hangnail, there’s a 100% chance you’ve been killed by a hangnail. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/24 "2015-07-29T23:32:59Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Bayesian probability. If you are killed by something and you are not killed by something other than a hangnail, there’s a 100% chance you’ve been killed by a hangnail. Does this hypothesis require that, first, you did in fact have a hangnail? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/25 "2015-07-30T01:44:28Z")
No. But it does require that you do eventually die from something or another. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/26 "2015-07-30T01:55:24Z")
My late wife’s oncologist told us that EVERYONE will get cancer, eventually. Unless they die of something else first. This sounds kind of tautologous, but what’s he’s saying is, unlike most diseases, cancer is, in the long term, an unavoidable result of normal biological processes. With our cells dividing all the time, and a small risk of an error in each division, given enough time a “really bad” error will happen, and a cell will end up malignant. –Mark ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/27 "2015-07-30T02:15:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No. But it does require that you do eventually die from something or another. The heat death of the universe might happen first. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/28 "2015-07-30T02:20:40Z")
Yes, cancer is a disease everyone will eventually get if something else doesn’t kill them first. Heart disease is something that will eventually kill everyone if something else doesn’t kill them first. The heat death of the universe will eventually kill everyone who doesn’t die from something else first. Or more simply put, something will eventually kill you if something else doesn’t kill you first. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/29 "2015-07-30T02:31:58Z")
A more meaningful statement would be something like “By age X, everyone who is still alive will have contracted some form of cancer”, with a suitable value for X. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/30 "2015-07-30T03:19:15Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > …Furthermore the definition of _cancer_ includes that the damaged cells can/have invaded other tissue (metastasized), and given the description above you can imagine why the long term prognosis for metastases without any treatment is not good. I feel very stupid asking this, and don’t mean to play with words, but: “a cancer cell” or “a [insert type/location of cell”] which has gone haywire by cancer/is cancerous (cancerized, as it were)? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/31 "2015-07-30T03:29:48Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > [The reason this came up is because there’s a guy in my neighborhood whose esophogeal cancer did not respond to any treatment and in fact spread to other parts of his body, and he’s now in a hospice-like setting. What I’m wondering is if there’s some chance, however small, that the cancer will spontaneously recede.] I know it’s been adressed before that it’s highly unlikely and more than if there wasn’t metastasis, but not why. Your neighbor doesn’t even have only esophageal cancer any more. By now it wouldn’t be one type of cancer that needs to recede, it’s several. Think of it as a fire with only one focus vs one with many. Depending on how the metastasis has gone, it’s even fires with different types of fuel. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/32 "2015-07-30T05:15:44Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > How about prostate cancer. in many cases, it grows so slowly that people die of other causes. Some doctors feel treating it is not worthwhile. Right, if you’re old enough and it small enough they often will say to just monitor it. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/33 "2015-07-30T05:19:42Z")
> [@Marion\_Wormer](#): > > This is a possibility that as much of a third of the population is walking around with some form of thyroid cancer. They found this out by conducting autopsies and finding that 36 out of a 100 bodies had some form of thyroid cancer. Thyroid cancer or thyroid tumors? It’s not the same. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/34 "2015-07-30T06:11:40Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > I feel very stupid asking this, and don’t mean to play with words, but: “a cancer cell” or “a [insert type/location of cell”] which has gone haywire by cancer/is cancerous (cancerized, as it were)? Yes. You can talk about a single cancer cell. I can’t actually google this right now, this is all IIRC: Tumors are categorized into 4 grades; 1 to 4. From least to most “aggressive”. Any grade of tumor can potentially kill you if it’s in the wrong place, but grade 4 are much more likely to be fatal than grade 1. I think technically _cancer_ is only grades 3 and 4. So I was basically saying while _tumors_ can shrink and disappear, it’s much less common for cancer. ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/35 "2015-07-30T07:50:27Z")
There was a Swiss doctor in the 60s who got people with advanced, untreatable cancer climbing mountains, etc. The idea was to stimulate their immune systems to deal with the cancer. Lilian Board, a British athlete with stomach cancer, was treated by him after a newspaper raised the funds for her treatment. She died. He claimed a 5% cure rate. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/36 "2015-07-30T12:50:13Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Thyroid cancer or thyroid tumors? It’s not the same. What the poster may have been referring to is occult papillary thyroid carcinoma/microcarcinoma, which has been found in carefully studied thyroids from autopsy cases. The studies I’ve seen cite [a low percentage](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2676140) of occult papillary carcinomas (36% sounds extraordinarily high, and may include benign neoplasms like adenomas as well). Occult (not having demonstrated clinical significance) prostate carcinomas are apparently much more common. Unfortunately we don’t have reliable ways of determining which will never metastasize and which are a clinical threat (higher grade tumors are considered more dangerous). Speaking of grade (a morphologic measurement designed to show which tumors are nastiest looking microscopically and thus likely to behave badly), it’s calculated differently for different tumors, and doesn’t always correlate well with clinical outcome. Much more important is _stage_ of a tumor - which describes extent of local spread and metastasis. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/37 "2015-07-30T14:04:34Z")
Thanks as always for your input, Dr.s **Qadcop** and **Jackmanii**. And **Martin Hyde** - I actually have a mole that I have had for years, but has begun growing and itching in the past few months. Based on what you posted - I think I will call the doctor and have it looked at. Thanks to all. Dopers are good. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/38 "2015-07-31T08:52:28Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > How about prostate cancer. in many cases, it grows so slowly that people die of other causes. Some doctors feel treating it is not worthwhile. > [@Telemark](#): > > That scenario is explicitly excluded in the OP. I don’t think it is that clear cut. I had a discussion about this with my specialist and it is not so much that it will develop slowly. It is that there is a lot of difficulty in discerning what is not aggressive and what is a aggressive. A lot of men will die with prostate cancer but not from prostate cancer. As an expert, he said he would not have a clue which way he would jump if he was diagnosed. I would add that this discussion was about ten years ago so it is possible/ probable that a definitive diagnosis can now be made. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/39 "2015-07-31T11:49:03Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m aware that people who have cancer can sometimes die from other causes, and that some cancers are very slow-growing and people who have them typically die of other causes first. That’s not what I’m asking about. > > I have this idea that sometimes cancer will spontaneously go into remission even in the absence of any treatment (and that this is sometimes the basis for various miraculous or quack cancer cures, who claim success in instances such as these). > > Is this correct? This is correct, though rare (at least, rarely documented). The default putative mechanism is an immunological defense which is somehow triggered by the rogue cells, either b/c the cancer morphed, or b/c the immune system caught up to it. As Karl Gauss notes above, melanoma and renal cell are often cited as examples. It is not the case that all cancers have similar rates of reported spontaneous resolution. While externally-manipulated immunologic approaches have been shown to affect cancers, the particulars of how innate defenses might cure a cancer are not worked out. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473/40 "2015-07-31T12:10:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > A more meaningful statement would be something like “By age X, everyone who is still alive will have contracted some form of cancer”, with a suitable value for X. Did Mrs Calament ever get cancer? [Jeanne Calment - Wikipedia](Https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-untreated-cancer-always-fatal/726473.md?page=3)