# Is using someone else's wireless network illegal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 14, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218 "2005-04-14T00:48:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/21 "2005-04-14T02:21:02Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > I don’t believe this. > > Members in good standing on this board believe it’s ok to to use a service in which they are not entitled to use. > > Says a lot about you doesn’t it. > I believe I am entitled to call you thieves. > > Which is what you are. You may have a bit more credibilty if you could just PROVIDE A CITE. I happen to agree with you, however just saying it is illegal, doesn’t make it so. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/22 "2005-04-14T02:24:47Z")
> [@1920s Style "Death Ray"](#): > > You may have a bit more credibilty if you could just PROVIDE A CITE. I happen to agree with you, however just saying it is illegal, doesn’t make it so. Ain’t nothing illegal unless you get caught. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/23 "2005-04-14T02:34:39Z")
> [@jasonh300](#): > > Technically, he’s deprived an ISP of service fees since he’s not paying an ISP for access…the same way that you’re depriving the cable company of monthly fees if you tap into the neighbor’s cable. In St\_Ides I don’t think that this is the case. The internet connection is being paid for. He might be depriving a cell phone company a subscription to a cellular data service. In the OP case when he is using the same connection over and over from the neighbor you are correct. Reeder. I really don’t have a problem with you using my internet connection provided you don’t abuse it. The problem comes in that I cannot trust random strangers to not abuse my connection therefore I secure it. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/24 "2005-04-14T02:37:22Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Ain’t nothing illegal unless you get caught. So let me get this straight. When the OP asks “Is using someone else’s wireless network **illegal**?”, you are unable to provide any useful, factual information. What exactly are you doing here? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/25 "2005-04-14T02:38:45Z")
Just an off-topic observation, but this sounds just like the early days of file sharing. After all, unlimited copies of a file can be made, so it isn’t really stealing, but something else, or so the arguemnet went. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/26 "2005-04-14T02:44:06Z")
OK…it might not be prosecutable…I catch you using mine and it will be. But that doesn’t make it right. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/27 "2005-04-14T02:55:06Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > OK…it might not be prosecutable So you believe it’s not illegal, then? ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/28 "2005-04-14T02:55:11Z")
If I left a hose outside my house running, pouring water over the sidewalk (i.e. public property), would it be wrong for you to walk by and take a drink? I don’t think so, and I think the situations are roughly analogous. In both cases, someone is broadcasting a resource of relatively low value beyond the bounds of his own property and failing to take simple and known precautions against its being taken by others. Furthermore, in both cases, the “loss” need not have a measurable impact on the person losing the resource. **Reeder** ’s position is that taking something that isn’t yours is always wrong. It’s hard to argue with that, but I think that an analogy could be drawn to the legal status of squatters. IANAL, but my understanding is that if you allow someone to use your property and don’t do anything to stop them over a period of time, they ultimately gain a form of ownership. In other words, a person who makes a resource widely available and does nothing to protect it bears some responsibility for the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/29 "2005-04-14T02:57:54Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > So you believe it’s not illegal, then? Yes I believe it’s illegal. Wanna be the test case? ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/30 "2005-04-14T03:02:37Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > But that doesn’t make it right. Nobody said it did. Read the title of the thread. Does it say “Is using someone else’s wireless network ethical?” No. Does it say “Is using someone else’s wireless network moral?” No. Does it say “Do you think using someone else’s wireless network is okay?” No. It says: “Is using someone else’s wireless network **legal**?” > **[Definition of legal | Dictionary.com](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/legal)** > > Definition of legal from Dictionary.com, the world’s leading online source for English definitions, pronunciations, word origins, idioms, Word of the Day, and more. le·gal adj. 1. Of, relating to, or concerned with law: legal papers. 2. 1. Authorized by or based on law: a legal right. 2. Established by law; statutory: the legal owner. 3. In conformity with or permitted by law: legal business operations. 4. Recognized or enforced by law rather than by equity. 5. In terms of or created by the law: a legal offense. 6. Applicable to or characteristic of attorneys or their profession. The OP’s question deals solely with matters of law. S/he wants to know whether the law, as it stands, specifically prohibits the use of an unsecured wireless internet connection belonging to someone other than oneself. Your moral stance on the issue, while justifiable and in line with many valid ideologies, has no bearing on its present legality. If you wish to discuss the ethics of this type of action, I heartily recommend GD (or, alternatively, the Pit). On preview, I see that you’ve since posited that, in addition to believing it unethical, you also believe it to be illegal. However, unlike ethics, in which each individual’s opinion can and should be given consideration, the current state of law is a definite matter upon which beliefs hold no influence whatsoever. Ergo: cite? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/31 "2005-04-14T03:03:35Z")
Agreed. It probably isn’t the “right” thing to do. The problem is that a lot of people have open access points on purpose. How are we supposed to know which access points are open on purpose to allow other people to use them, and which ones aren’t? I think that the onus should really be on the owner of the access point to secure it, then if ANY kind of attempt is made to get past the security you have definitely over stepped the bounds of decency. A useful analogy may be a water tap placed on the outside of a building. The water from that tap is being paid for by the building’s owner (in some states in Australia water is paid for per litre, in others it is included in the rates paid to the city each year, either way it is paid for.) In order to use the water from that tap, it is not necessary to trespass. Is it legal to turn the tap on and take some water? Is it ethically right? What about if you hook up a hose and fill up your swimming pool with it? I don’t know the answer to the legal question. My opinion is that it is ethically ok to turn the tap on and take enough water for a drink, half a litre say. It would be wrong to hook up a hose and fill up your pool. In the same way I think that it’s probably ok to use someone’s unsecured wireless connection to check your emails as a once off, and it is not ok to use it to download full length movies. None of this answers the OP though. ---
**Author:** ![Gest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Gest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gest)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/32 "2005-04-14T03:03:59Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > OK…it might not be prosecutable…I catch you using mine and it will be. I don’t understand what you mean. I suspect it’s internet tough guy talk that’s supposed to sound ominous but OTOH, you might actually mean that you would try to press charges against someone using your connection. In either case, if you’re so adverse to someone doing this, it’s trivially easy to enable WEP or WPA to keep your precious bandwidth all to yourself. Laws are inherently bad things and if another solution can be found, especially when it’s a better solution, it’s what should be used. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/33 "2005-04-14T03:04:20Z")
> [@Roland Orzabal](#): > > Nobody said it did. Read the title of the thread. Does it say “Is using someone else’s wireless network ethical?” No. Does it say “Is using someone else’s wireless network moral?” No. Does it say “Do you think using someone else’s wireless network is okay?” No. > > It says: “Is using someone else’s wireless network **legal**?” > > [http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=legal](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=legal) > > le·gal > adj. > > 1. Of, relating to, or concerned with law: legal papers. > 2. > 1. Authorized by or based on law: a legal right. > 2. Established by law; statutory: the legal owner. > > 3. In conformity with or permitted by law: legal business operations. > 4. Recognized or enforced by law rather than by equity. > 5. In terms of or created by the law: a legal offense. > 6. Applicable to or characteristic of attorneys or their profession. > > The OP’s question deals solely with matters of law. S/he wants to know whether the law, as it stands, specifically prohibits the use of an unsecured wireless internet connection belonging to someone other than oneself. Your moral stance on the issue, while justifiable and in line with many valid ideologies, has no bearing on its present legality. If you wish to discuss the ethics of this type of action, I heartily recommend GD (or, alternatively, the Pit). > > On preview, I see that you’ve since posited that, in addition to believing it unethical, you also believe it to be illegal. However, unlike ethics, in which each individual’s opinion can and should be given consideration, the current state of law is a definite matter upon which beliefs hold no influence whatsoever. Ergo: cite? Maybe you want to be the test case. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/34 "2005-04-14T03:11:19Z")
If you use something that belongs to someone else. Without their permisson. That they paid for. It’s wrong and illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/35 "2005-04-14T03:13:52Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Yes I believe it’s illegal. > > Wanna be the test case? Sure. Cite the law that applies. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/36 "2005-04-14T03:14:08Z")
OK, lets say that one of us agrees to be the test case. You leave your wireless connection unsecured. I say “Reeder, may I use your wireless conection to connect to the internet?” You say “no.” I do it anyway. What are you going to charge me with? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/37 "2005-04-14T03:17:47Z")
The above doesn’t really test it properly. Remove the part where I ask if I can use the connection and you say “no.” Instead I just go and use your connection with no idea whether you want me to or not. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/38 "2005-04-14T03:20:42Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Maybe you want to be the test case. An apt refutation of my above points, to be sure. Nonetheless, I do hope you’ll indulge me a moment longer. In answer to your question, no, I don’t. I happen to agree with your stance that the use of someone else’s connection without their permission is unethical. I would not personally do this, and would in fact actively discourage others from doing so. Now: please be so kind as to enlighten me, soundly defeated though I am, as to what on Earth any of this has to do with the legality of the action in question. > [@](#): > > If you use something that belongs to someone else. Without their permisson. That they paid for. It’s wrong and illegal. Ah yes, the infamous “Antitheft Sentence Fragment Act” of 1972. Unless you can produce a cite for a law that states “The use of something that belongs to someone else without their permission, that they paid for, is illegal”, then I’m afraid that that particular series of randomly punctuated words will not constitute the final word on the issue. Better yet would be if you could produce a law that actually pertains to wireless internet use. The rest of us will be waiting. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/39 "2005-04-14T03:21:58Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > If I left a hose outside my house running, pouring water over the sidewalk (i.e. public property), would it be wrong for you to walk by and take a drink? I don’t think so, and I think the situations are roughly analogous. That’s a good analogy. Here’s another. You have a party in your backyard at which you have a live musical group performing. I sit in my backyard next door and enjoy the music. Am I stealing from you? I would think not, since you have not limited the broadcast of the music to your property. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218/40 "2005-04-14T03:34:57Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > If you use something that belongs to someone else. Without their permisson. That they paid for. It’s wrong and illegal. It could be argued that by choosing to leave your wireless network unsecured, you are implying permission to use the network. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-someone-elses-wireless-network-illegal/299218.md?page=3)