# Is using "that" twice in a row "that that" poor grammar? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 4, 2022, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933 "2022-02-04T22:02:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/1 "2022-02-04T22:02:59Z")
I wish I could come up with a better example, but something like: “I didn’t know that that employee was responsible”. I occasionally find myself using “that” twice and it always feels wrong to me even though I’m hard pressed to find a better way to articulate it. ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/2 "2022-02-04T22:06:48Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > “I didn’t know that that employee was responsible”. I think that would work with one “that”. “I didn’t know that employee was responsible” … works for me, 'specially with a bit of stress - “I didn’t know _that_ employee was responsible” ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/3 "2022-02-04T22:07:14Z")
It’s a bit of a quirk of the English language but I would say that that is perfectly fine. This blog article agrees. I don’t know how authoritative it is, but reading the authors bio, they sound like they know their stuff: > **[The Grammarphobia Blog: “This this” and “that that”](https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2013/08/this-and-that.html)** > > Is it OK to repeat a word, like "this this" or "that that," in a sentence? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/4 "2022-02-04T22:08:47Z")
For some reason I’m getting visions of a herd of eight buffalo right now. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/5 "2022-02-04T22:09:40Z")
Yeah, that was a poor example. But there are some instances where it’s not so clear cut. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/6 "2022-02-04T22:13:29Z")
Thanks @solost , that was a good read. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/7 "2022-02-04T22:16:19Z")
“At what exact point in this sentence did I use incorrect grammar?” “It was at that that.” ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/8 "2022-02-04T22:17:12Z")
and you can use the word “had” pretty much as many times as you want in a row. Some disagreed, but the opinion they had had had had no effect on the practice. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/9 "2022-02-04T23:05:08Z")
There’s a double that in the version of the Gettysburg Address we had to memorize in high school. > We have come to dedicate a portion of it, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives **that that** nation might live. [The Gettysburg Address by Abraham Lincoln](http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/gettysburg.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/10 "2022-02-04T23:15:57Z")
> [@solost](#): > > It’s a bit of a quirk of the English language but I would say that that is perfectly fine. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen “que que” in French, but can’t think of an example. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/11 "2022-02-04T23:19:24Z")
When I taught a class about using Microsoft Word, I used “that that” in the Gettysburg Address as an example of a potential grammar issue that Word didn’t flag, while Word flags most other doubled words. I couldn’t think of other doubled words that are intentional like that. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/12 "2022-02-04T23:26:52Z")
When the owner of the Hare and Hounds pub received a new sign for his establishment, he promptly wrote the sign painter an angry letter: “The spaces between **Hare** and **and** and **and** and **Hounds** aren’t even!” But his space bar kept getting stuck, so the spaces between **Hare** and **and** and **and** and **and** and **and** and **and** and **and** and **and** and **and** and **Hounds** weren’t even. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/13 "2022-02-04T23:27:02Z")
I said that that ‘that’ that that man used was used incorrectly. GAH ! ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/14 "2022-02-04T23:36:38Z")
A sentence can be perfectly correct grammatically, yet still be confusing and/or aesthetically unappealing. I don’t think “that that” automatically puts a sentence into either of those categories, necessarily, but it’s something to watch out for. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/15 "2022-02-04T23:57:55Z")
I think that using words in quotes (or which should be in quotes) is bad form for this game. Otherwise you could have grammatical sentences like “The crazy bum said ‘rutabaga rutabaga rutabaga rutabaga’”, and thus claim that it’s grammatical to use the word “rutabaga” four times in a row. “That that”, though? Sure. If it was good enough for Abe, it’s good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/16 "2022-02-05T00:00:20Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Thanks @solost , that was a good read. The last paragraph of that article had a link to another article that also made for a fun read, in case you missed it. A couple gems from the article– A sentence with 8 ‘thats’, first 5 and then 3 of them consecutive: > “I told him that that ‘that’ that that editor had deleted, was not that ‘that’ that I had marked.” A punctuation puzzle: > It reminds us of a punctuation puzzle popularized by _Flowers for Algernon_ , Daniel Keys’s 1966 science fiction novel, and _Charly_ , a 1968 movie based on it: > > _that that is is that that is not is not is that it it is_ > > Here’s one solution: _That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is._ > **[The Grammarphobia Blog: “That” tricks](https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2011/02/that.html)** ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/17 "2022-02-05T00:20:49Z")
In the style guide that I follow, one is not supposed to suppress “thats.” So double “thats” occur fairly frequently. Rather than it being correct to suppress an extra “that,” it is, rather, more colloquial. I find that when two “thats” are used that way, I pronounce them slightly differently. (Including in my head as I read silently.) The first is a more clipped, “th’t” or “thet,” and the second is a very slightly more expansive and clear “that.” The second one is also more emphasized. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/18 "2022-02-05T01:06:57Z")
Far from it being poor grammar, there are times when it would be poor grammar to omit one of the **that** s. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/19 "2022-02-05T01:49:55Z")
It may not be ungrammatical, but I do often try to change my wording when I notice it, to avoid confusion. For example, if I were composing something like that quote in the Gettysburg Address, I would have written “…gave their lives **so that** nation might live.” Heck, I might autocorrect it in my head and thus misquote it. ---
**Author:** ![Tabco](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tabco/32/7644_2.png) [@Tabco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabco)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933/20 "2022-02-05T01:55:11Z")
Huh, even with adding that “so” I _still_ feel like I’d want to say “so that that nation might live” which might well be incorrect in its own right. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-that-twice-in-a-row-that-that-poor-grammar/958933.md?page=2)