# Is Using The Feminine Version Of Professional Titles (e.g. Seamstress, Actress) Falling Out Of Favor **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 20, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228 "2017-11-20T23:55:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/1 "2017-11-20T23:55:27Z")
I don’t hear the word “comedienne” any more, my understanding being that the comedy industry has collectively stopped using that word, and just prefers “comedian,” regardless of the sexual identity of the performer. I believe the same may be true for “Actress.” What about “seamstress”? Do I just say “tailor” now? If my friend Jenny throws a fabulous Academy Awards party, do I tell her she’s a great host now? Or is it still acceptable to say “hostess”? ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/2 "2017-11-20T23:59:44Z")
Quite: instead of having their own terms, women have been upgraded to honorary men. Enjoy. Funny it never happens the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/3 "2017-11-21T00:36:41Z")
I think the terms are generally falling out of favor. However, they’re still used for jobs where people think the gender is important (eg actresses are treated very differently than actors) and for **some** jobs that are heavily female (eg seamstress). While “nurse” and “secretary” don’t have outright masculine and feminine terms in English, I just finished reading a book where the author needed to tell us about a “male secretary”, almost as if the terms are viewed as feminine by some people and you need to attach the adjective “male” when a secretary is not female. I know a steward can fly the friendly skies just like a stewardess, but the word steward has other meanings (eg union steward, someone who serves food, etc) so referring to a steward (either the gender is not relevant, or you want to mention they are male) can get confusing. A female union steward would never be referred to as a stewardess. I think there are very few words that are outright “masculine” the same way. Actor is probably the most obvious example of such a word. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/4 "2017-11-21T00:43:31Z")
Yes, the gendered forms of profession titles are falling by the wayside. Because we’re talking about a natural language, the process is a little sloppy. By and large, it’s the masculine forms being adopted, although “nurse” is strongly female historically and is being adopted for male and female people in that profession (you seldom hear “male nurse” anymore, they’re just nurses). ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/5 "2017-11-21T00:50:10Z")
I think actress will stay around for a while, if only because of the Oscars. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/6 "2017-11-21T00:50:49Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > . . . Funny it never happens the other way around. It has. Bank Tellers and nurses used to be only men; now they are more often women. Nice try, but flunko. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/7 "2017-11-21T01:11:03Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > … (eg actresses are treated very differently than actors) … Is this a Weinstein joke? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/8 "2017-11-21T01:44:41Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > …What about “seamstress”? Do I just say “tailor” now?.. No, a tailor makes men’s clothing, a seamstress makes women’s clothes. A woman who makes men’s clothing is still a tailor; a man who makes women’s clothing is a dressmaker, which is gender neutral so it can apply women too. “Seamster” is not a word, and the suffix “ess” is almost always reserved for females in English. Marquess is the only exception I can think of off hand. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/9 "2017-11-21T01:49:47Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It has. Bank Tellers and nurses used to be only men; now they are more often women. > > Nice try, but flunko. Nope, not a flunko. At least, not as I read it. What I interpreted the post to being saying is that the _term_ for females never gets expanded to males, but it always goes the other way. You don’t see male performers calling themselves actresses or male heroes being called heroines and so forth, though you will see women called heroes and actors. …usually it seems calling a man by any female term is an insult ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/10 "2017-11-21T01:50:16Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It has. Bank Tellers and nurses used to be only men; now they are more often women. > > Nice try, but flunko. I get it for tellers, but are you saying men, say before Florence Nightingale’s time, who assisted in caring for the sick were called “nurses”? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/11 "2017-11-21T01:50:25Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It has. Bank Tellers and nurses used to be only men; now they are more often women. What about “wet nurse”? - pretty sure those were only women. “Nurse” has crossed the gender line at least once. So has “secretary” - used to be a male occupation, post WWII it became largely female. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/12 "2017-11-21T01:57:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I get it for tellers, but are you saying men, say before Florence Nightingale’s time, who assisted in caring for the sick were called “nurses”? I don’t know about BF (Before Florence), but Walt Whitman is often described as having worked as a nurse during the American Civil War. mmm ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/13 "2017-11-21T02:03:28Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I think actress will stay around for a while, if only because of the Oscars. That’s a good point, but I work in the theatre/film/tv world, and most women I know (including my wife, who is a performer) _hate_ the term “actress”. The Oscars may very well default to “Female Actor” or something similar, and it may happen sooner than you think. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/14 "2017-11-21T02:10:16Z")
> [@](#): > > I get it for tellers, but are you saying men, say before Florence Nightingale’s time, who assisted in caring for the sick were called “nurses”? I think at least sometimes they were. Though I don’t think there was actual training or officialness to the title of nurse prior to Nightingale (in England). [Here](https://books.google.com/books?id=xIwDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA151&dq=%22nurse%22+physician&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiq5OLix87XAhUMMt8KHaSYAvsQ6AEIPTAE#v=onepage&q=%22nurse%22%20physician&f=false) is a link that seems to indicate a male called nurse. But I’ve only read a small except, so may be misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/15 "2017-11-21T02:16:43Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I think actress will stay around for a while, if only because of the Oscars. Do they still publish that magazine _Blactress_? I don’t think there was ever a _Blacktor_. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/16 "2017-11-21T02:29:10Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > I think at least sometimes they were. Though I don’t think there was actual training or officialness to the title of nurse prior to Nightingale (in England). [Here](https://books.google.com/books?id=xIwDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA151&dq=%22nurse%22+physician&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiq5OLix87XAhUMMt8KHaSYAvsQ6AEIPTAE#v=onepage&q=%22nurse%22%20physician&f=false) is a link that seems to indicate a male called nurse. But I’ve only read a small except, so may be misunderstanding. How are you getting that the nurse is a man? I took the reference to “man” to be the sick person, not the caretakers. It is, I think, at best ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/17 "2017-11-21T03:57:54Z")
Militaries have typically used many men in the role of “nurse” since probably forever. Which not to say there were absolutely no women involved, but militaries are largely male in all roles. Most of the male nurses I know in my age group came out of the military - Navy, Army, that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/18 "2017-11-21T04:07:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Is this a Weinstein joke? No. I’m talking about professionally. Female-only roles and male-only roles. Female actors (actresses) above a certain age can’t get parts except “character” parts. Etc. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/19 "2017-11-21T04:56:26Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Do they still publish that magazine _Blactress_? I don’t think there was ever a _Blacktor_. And you rarely hear about people visiting a dominator. My spellchecker doesn’t even recognize it. ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/20 "2017-11-21T05:16:51Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > I don’t hear the word “comedienne” any more, my understanding being that the comedy industry has collectively stopped using that word, and just prefers “comedian,” regardless of the sexual identity of the performer. I believe the same may be true for “Actress.” > > What about “seamstress”? Do I just say “tailor” now? > > If my friend Jenny throws a fabulous Academy Awards party, do I tell her she’s a great host now? Or is it still acceptable to say “hostess”? I don’t think many people use the term comedian anymore. They’re more often referred to as comics now. In my day a comic was something found in the Sunday newspapers. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228.md?page=2)