# Is Using The Feminine Version Of Professional Titles (e.g. Seamstress, Actress) Falling Out Of Favor **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 20, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228 "2017-11-20T23:55:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/21 "2017-11-21T05:25:50Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > If my friend Jenny throws a fabulous Academy Awards party, do I tell her she’s a great host now? Or is it still acceptable to say “hostess”? Tell her she’s a great Mistress of Ceremonies. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/22 "2017-11-21T06:04:34Z")
> [@Imasquare](#): > > I don’t think many people use the term comedian anymore. They’re more often referred to as comics now. In my day a comic was something found in the Sunday newspapers. This is a pet peeve of mine. There’s a perfectly good non-ambiguous gender-neutral word already widely used, but they replace it with something else that already has a different definition. So annoying. Anyway, I think there are specific situations where you are deliberately delineating men vs women, and using a gender-specific term is okay then, but that’s a rare case, maybe even hard to specify. Generally, especially now that gender is recognised as being so varied, it’s an antiquated thing that will disappear within 30 years. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/23 "2017-11-21T06:23:51Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > I know a steward can fly the friendly skies just like a stewardess, but the word steward has other meanings (eg union steward, someone who serves food, etc) so referring to a steward (either the gender is not relevant, or you want to mention they are male) can get confusing. A female union steward would never be referred to as a stewardess. At least in the U.S., the airline crew members who were formerly known as stewards / stewardesses are now almost always referred to as flight attendants, regardless of gender. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/24 "2017-11-21T07:56:06Z")
> [@Imasquare](#): > > I don’t think many people use the term comedian anymore. They’re more often referred to as comics now. In my day a comic was something found in the Sunday newspapers. Comic and comedian are slightly different though. A comic is someone who makes (at least part) of their living via standup comedy, a comedian could work in standup comedy but they could also do sketch, improv, comedy acting etc. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/25 "2017-11-21T08:38:48Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > At least in the U.S., the airline crew members who were formerly known as stewards / stewardesses are now almost always referred to as flight attendants, regardless of gender. And in the UK. See also: firefighters, instead of firemen. On the actor/actress thing, I’ve certainly heard awards ceremonies where they announced ‘Lead actor in a female role’ as a category. I thought it might be BAFTA, but the website disagrees with me. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/26 "2017-11-21T13:35:47Z")
I hope they don’t drop “Dominatrix” – “Dominator” just doesn’t have the same ring. It’s that “-ix” ending. I really like “aviatrix”, too, even though there’s nothing sexual about it. But we don’t have aviatrices anymore, just pilots. So hold onto those dominatrices as long as you can. Unless they tell you to let go, and hit you. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/27 "2017-11-21T13:55:07Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I hope they don’t drop “Dominatrix” – “Dominator” just doesn’t have the same ring. It’s that “-ix” ending. I really like “aviatrix”, too, even though there’s nothing sexual about it. Also the seldom-used “executrix”. ---
**Author:** ![chaika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chaika/32/405_2.png) [@chaika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaika)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/28 "2017-11-21T14:48:03Z")
It’s a process that has been going on for quite a while. Words like poetess and authoress have blessedly been consigned to the dustbin. And rather than using the word “man” or “woman” to designate particular jobs, neutral forms work well: firefighter has replaced fireman, police officer is used more often than policeman, etc. At most universities, including my own, the person heading any given department is a chair (not a chairman or chairwoman or even chairperson). ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/29 "2017-11-21T17:43:14Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I hope they don’t drop “Dominatrix” – “Dominator” just doesn’t have the same ring. It’s that “-ix” ending. I really like “aviatrix”, too, even though there’s nothing sexual about it. > > But we don’t have aviatrices anymore, just pilots. So hold onto those dominatrices as long as you can. Unless they tell you to let go, and hit you. Well, masseuse and masseur are falling out of favor, so I have a feeling “domination therapist” is on the horizon. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/30 "2017-11-21T18:23:53Z")
So what’s a gender-neutral term for one who makes or repairs garments, either for men or women or both? Garment-maker? ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/31 "2017-11-21T19:56:04Z")
I don’t know about English speaking countries but a male Swedish friend who worked as a nurse told me they were addressed as ‘Sister’ regardless of gender, he also said he quite liked it. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/32 "2017-11-21T20:08:49Z")
> [@typoink](#): > > Well, masseuse and masseur are falling out of favor, so I have a feeling “domination therapist” is on the horizon. You are delivering a Massage. What’s wrong with Massage Therapist ?? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/33 "2017-11-21T21:03:14Z")
I propose introducing more feminine versions of professional titles" Lawyer / Lawyeress Manager / Womanager Accountant / Accountrix > [@CalMeacham](#): > > I hope they don’t drop “Dominatrix” – “Dominator” just doesn’t have the same ring. It’s that “-ix” ending. I really like “aviatrix”, too, even though there’s nothing sexual about it. Nothing?😃 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/34 "2017-11-21T21:10:50Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > So what’s a gender-neutral term for one who makes or repairs garments, either for men or women or both? Garment-maker? Tailor or sewer, I suppose. I disagree with alphaboi, though. Seamstress is pretty clearly gendered but I disagree that they would only do women’s clothes. What differentiates a seamstress from a tailor, to me, is that a tailor is someone who alters existing clothes to fit, while a seamstress is a woman who may alter existing clothing or draft and assemble a piece from fabric. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/35 "2017-11-21T21:41:10Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I think actress will stay around for a while, if only because of the Oscars. The Screen Actors’ Guild gives out awards to Male Actor and Female Actor. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/36 "2017-11-21T21:43:33Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I propose introducing more feminine versions of professional titles" > > Lawyer / Lawyeress > > Manager / Womanager > > Accountant / Accountrix > > Nothing?😃 ‘Manageress’ is already used. Spellcheck even accepts it. _Why_ it’s used, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/37 "2017-11-22T00:47:34Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > You are delivering a Massage. What’s wrong with Massage Therapist ?? “Therapist” implies someone who can treat a medical condition. Massage doesn’t necessarily do that. Go to any good day-spa and you can get a good feel-good body massage. But the practitioners, for the most part, are NOT trained to diagnose let alone treat any medical condition. In a medical setting, you might have a real massage _therapist_ with extensive additional training in treating certain medical conditions. But even that would have to be diagnosed and recommended by a doctor, and the massage work would be done under (loosely) medical supervision. We all used to be called “massage therapist”, regardless. It was always a misnomer, for most of us. About 10 years ago, the trend shifted, and the preferred title is now “massage practitioner”. Unless one is a true massage therapist. My certificate says “Certified Massage Therapist” (CMT) but I never saw myself as a real therapist. I have always called myself a “practitioner” even before that was in style. (So should a female massage practitioner be called a practitioness?) ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/38 "2017-11-22T00:58:41Z")
A great many other languages are much more highly gendered than English. I wonder how this entire discussion would play out in one of those languages? In many languages (including the Latin-derived ones), ALL nouns are arbitrarily assigned a “male” role or a “female” role. Nouns that refer to persons (and sometimes animals) exist in both male and female forms. You can’t say “teacher” or “doctor” without specifying male or female. That’s why Bible translations always use phrases like “boy-child” or “girl-child” or say that a rich man possesses so many “man-servants and maid-servants and he-asses and she-asses” because any translation that omits the gender isn’t an accurate translation. And adjectives must be modified to match the gender of the subject. In some languages (e.g., Hebrew) even the verbs must be modified to match the gender of their subjects. Could you even have un-gendered job titles in languages like that? ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/39 "2017-11-22T03:33:21Z")
In Quebec, we gave “professeur” and “profess, eure” and it is hard to see how that could change since if you used “professeur” for women, you would be forced to us “il” as the pronoun. You might want to dispute this, but the word “personne” is feminine and the pronoun “elle” is always used even then the referent is actually male. Grammatical gender is funny. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/40 "2017-11-22T03:48:24Z")
**Hari Seldon** beat me to saying that in languages like French, Latin and Hebrew this is a non-issue because job titles already have grammatical gender like any other noun. Terms like “girl-child” just sound like awkward, over-literal translation. ETA a French teacher would simply be “madame le professeur”, no? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228.md?page=3)