# Is Using The Feminine Version Of Professional Titles (e.g. Seamstress, Actress) Falling Out Of Favor **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 20, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228 "2017-11-20T23:55:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/41 "2017-11-22T03:50:44Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > What differentiates a seamstress from a tailor, to me, is that a tailor is someone who alters existing clothes to fit, while a seamstress is a woman who may alter existing clothing or draft and assemble a piece from fabric. Not according to my mother-in-law, who had her own shop, and both made and altered clothes for men and women. A tailor does everything. Someone who specializes in making women’s clothing is a dressmaker. An alterationist or fitter takes already-made clothes and adjusts them to fit the owner. A sewer/seamstress merely takes pieces of fabric and does basic assembly, whether making drapes or attaching buttons. Every skill has its own rankings. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/42 "2017-11-22T04:25:01Z")
And yet in this thread we have three distinctly different ideas about what each word means, so clearly that ranking has not yet made its way into general english. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/43 "2017-11-22T06:52:00Z")
Isn’t it interesting how every language is always evolving. Don’t act surprised when yours does. They do that for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/44 "2017-11-22T07:02:56Z")
Google’s n-Gram viewer is a lovely resource for following the evolution of language. “Actress” has actually gained a bit in usage in recent decades. > **[Google Books Ngram Viewer](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=actor%2Cactress&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=17&smoothing=5&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cactor%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cactress%3B%2Cc0)** > > Google Books Ngram Viewer ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/45 "2017-11-22T08:54:22Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Tailor or sewer, I suppose. I disagree with alphaboi, though. Seamstress is pretty clearly gendered but I disagree that they would only do women’s clothes. What differentiates a seamstress from a tailor, to me, is that a tailor is someone who alters existing clothes to fit, while a seamstress is a woman who may alter existing clothing or draft and assemble a piece from fabric. My 90 year old father, the tailor, would be up in arms at your description, as he prides himself on making garments from scratch (and was also a pattern cutter in his day, ie the guy that designs the original patterns). ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/46 "2017-11-22T10:48:21Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > ETA a French teacher would simply be “madame le professeur”, no? To be clear, according to « Larousse » \*professeure/professeuse is not a real word (yet “une professeur” sometimes occurs in informal spoken language). On the other hand, French (and Latin, and Hebrew) have feminine versions of _some_ professions, e.g. actrice, directrice. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/47 "2017-11-22T12:11:19Z")
A bit of a tangent, but I’m not a coffee drinker, and when I hear the term “barista” I usually have to momentarily “remember to myself” that a barista can be a male or female, because it sounds like a feminine version of a word to my ears. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/48 "2017-11-22T12:24:37Z")
Correct; only in the plural can we distinguish baristi from bariste. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/49 "2017-11-22T12:31:07Z")
It’s not taking the male version. It’s that we very often assumed the original was male, and added a suffix to make it female. We are increasingly realizing the difference isn’t relevant, and that the feminine suffix is very often a diminuitive, so we go back to the neutral, and no longer use it just for men. When the word is explicitly masculine, then we usually wind up changing the word. For example, policeman, fireman, and mailman become police officer, firefighter, and mail carrier, respectively. I will say that “actress” is different, as far as I can tell. It’s not that gender is unimportant. It’s more of a separate but equal complaint. I’ve heard from many that the “actress” does a specific set of woman roles that revolve around men. And that the idea is to say that you can do more than that, that you have as much range as any other actor, male or female. With all of these, there’s also the gender binary issue, but I don’t think it really plays much of a role in the change. But it is a nice fix so that enbies don’t have to choose. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/50 "2017-11-22T12:33:10Z")
> [@typoink](#): > > Well, masseuse and masseur are falling out of favor, so I have a feeling “domination therapist” is on the horizon. Interesting. I was under the impression masseuse was being used for both. I admit I didn’t learn the difference growing up, any more than I learned fiance vs fiancee or blonde vs blond. Masseur was just a funny French-sounding word, while I called all (human) massagers masseuses. And, yeah, I know massager has a “thing” connotation now. But I quite like the word, and would love if it caught on. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/51 "2017-11-22T14:40:00Z")
Wordsmith William Safire got into this battle early on, and decided the rule should be use a gender neutral term, and add a gender specific only if it is relevant; i.e. The patient requested a female nurse. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228/52 "2017-11-24T04:18:24Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > In Quebec, we gave “professeur” and “profess, eure” and it is hard to see how that could change since if you used “professeur” for women, you would be forced to us “il” as the pronoun. You might want to dispute this, but the word “personne” is feminine and the pronoun “elle” is always used even then the referent is actually male. Grammatical gender is funny. [Speaking](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42073148)of the French language. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-using-the-feminine-version-of-professional-titles-e-g-seamstress-actress-falling-out-of-favor/802228.md?page=2)