# IS value imaginary **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 14, 2019, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055 "2019-07-14T04:55:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/141 "2019-08-19T22:09:33Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Except you missed the part where they said that value and our judgments about right and wrong get in the way of reality, or the link and excerpt from a few posts ago about how value doesn’t exist and that it is just an imaginary metric that we use to judge the world. > > It’s a theme about how much of our reality is really just what we project onto it. Like how "home’ is just a concept, and idea, that we have in our heads. It doesn’t exist in reality. If there were such a place then you would feel the sensation when you were there, yet often you hear how people mention how a house doesn’t feel like a home anymore. Because home is just in your head, it’s not a real thing you can point to. > > The same thing applies in this case to value. I mean it’s a little heartbreaking to hear that part about home, because I do hold things like that dear, but to know that it’s something I made up and not special is rough to hear. It’s like how they mention that reality is just non conceptual silence, empty of all our ideas and concepts, and projections on it. Keeping in mind that these buddhist idiots have a habit of pretending that all of reality is a fiction overlaying REAL reality lays bare what they’re going for with this nonsense. It’s part of the hoary bullshit that they’re trying to pull to invalidate reality to make their stupid nonsense alternative to reality look more appealing by comparison. Firstly, the fact that value is in the eye of the beholder doesn’t invalidate it. Each person defines the places they feel at home. It’s personal, but it’s very certainly not imaginary, because the mind is a real thing and it really does think its home is home. If you find it heartbreaking to listen to lying idiots tell you that you don’t really like the things you like, perhaps you should stop listening to lying idiots when they say things that are obviously false. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/142 "2019-08-20T03:32:27Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Keeping in mind that these buddhist idiots have a habit of pretending that all of reality is a fiction overlaying REAL reality lays bare what they’re going for with this nonsense. It’s part of the hoary bullshit that they’re trying to pull to invalidate reality to make their stupid nonsense alternative to reality look more appealing by comparison. > > Firstly, the fact that value is in the eye of the beholder doesn’t invalidate it. Each person defines the places they feel at home. It’s personal, but it’s very certainly not imaginary, because the mind is a real thing and it really does think its home is home. > > If you find it heartbreaking to listen to lying idiots tell you that you don’t really like the things you like, perhaps you should stop listening to lying idiots when they say things that are obviously false. Except you keep saying it’s pretending when it’s not, because from what they say we are the ones pretending. Value doesn’t exist outside the mind of the beholder, it’s based on made up metrics we created. I cannot find inherent value in anything around me, if it existed then it would be recognized by all. But the fact that it doesn’t means it’s just in the mind. The same thing with countries, cities, the idea of home, much of what we take to be solid and real is just us projecting onto reality. Good and bad are the same as well. You call them lying idiots, but you have not proven how what they say is a lie. Because as much as I hate to admit it, they’re right. We do pretend much of our lives. Value is just one way. Objectively speaking, one thing is not worth more than another, but I don’t know if I can live that way. If no option is “better than another” then I would be in stasis. But to pretend that something has value or meaning based on some arbitrary distinction doesn’t seem much better. She is sort of right in that much of the suffering in our world is based on our judgments on it. Whats good or bad, whats valuable, whos right or wrong. As much as I want them to be wrong, I just keep pointing back to them being right. It was similar with nihilism. Much of what we believe to be real is just make believe, and that hurts me a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/143 "2019-08-20T03:47:23Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Objectively speaking, one thing is not worth more than another, but I don’t know if I can live that way. If no option is “better than another” then I would be in stasis. Now you are trying to make [an ass](https://www.google.com/search?q=Buridan%27s+ass&oq=Buridan%27s+ass&aqs=heirloom-srp..) of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/144 "2019-08-20T17:37:39Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Except you keep saying it’s pretending when it’s not, because from what they say we are the ones pretending. Of course it’s pretending. They pretend that reality’s not real, and that by nuking your brain cells with meditation and/or drugs you can literally erase reality and access a deeper, harder, more trippy REAL reality that something something something who cares. All while reality manifestly ignores their nonsense and keeps on existing. And yes, they’re all “no, _you’re_ pretending!”, but they’re dipshits. Dipshits say stupid things that aren’t true. But seriously, don’t take MY word on whether or not reality is real. Go out and kick a rock really really hard; if your foot passes through it they’re right. > [@Machinaforce](#): > > Value doesn’t exist outside the mind of the beholder, it’s based on made up metrics we created. I cannot find inherent value in anything around me, if it existed then it would be recognized by all. But the fact that it doesn’t means it’s just in the mind. The same thing with countries, cities, the idea of home, much of what we take to be solid and real is just us projecting onto reality. Good and bad are the same as well. > > You call them lying idiots, but you have not proven how what they say is a lie. Because as much as I hate to admit it, they’re right. We do pretend much of our lives. Value is just one way. Objectively speaking, one thing is not worth more than another, but I don’t know if I can live that way. If no option is “better than another” then I would be in stasis. But to pretend that something has value or meaning based on some arbitrary distinction doesn’t seem much better. She is sort of right in that much of the suffering in our world is based on our judgments on it. Whats good or bad, whats valuable, whos right or wrong. > > As much as I want them to be wrong, I just keep pointing back to them being right. It was similar with nihilism. Much of what we believe to be real is just make believe, and that hurts me a lot. Okay, so let’s talk about definitions of words. Specifically, “imaginary”. “Imaginary” means “not real”. And merely existing the brain does **not** make something non-real. To be imaginary something has to _not exist_. Consider unicorns. Unicorns don’t exist. The _idea_ of unicorns exists, in the minds of people, and also written down on paper and painted into pictures and such. But unicorns themselves don’t exist. They’re imaginary. Consider thoughts. Thoughts DO exist. They only exist as part of people’s brain states, but they absolutely exist, because they are really part of people’s brains’ states, and those brains are real. The really brains really have states which really include thoughts. That’s what imaginary means. It **doesn’t** mean “in the mind”. It means “not real anywhere”. So let’s talk about value. Is value real anywhere? But before that, what _is_ value? Value is what a person thinks something is worth. It exists only in the minds of observers. But it **does** exist in the minds of observers. People really do value things, with their real thoughts in their real brain state in their real brains. So value is real. It’s not imaginary. When you say that if value exists it would recognized by all, that’s you spouting the lies those moronic shitbags you listen to are spouting. They are wrong about what value is. They are lying about what value is. They are too stupid to know what value is. Take your pick. But either way, these fuckers are spewing nonsense, and you’re parroting it. As for “pretending things have value”, don’t be absurd. You _know_ that you value food, and get hungry. You _know_ that you value drink, and get thirsty. You _know_ that “have toilet paper” and “need toilet paper and don’t have it” are not equal-value propositions. And the dipshits know it too, because it’s literally impossible to stay alive if you don’t recognize the value of things. If you REALLY reject value you’d go all Buridan’s ass and never eat again. But you do eat, because of course value is real and you damn well know it. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/145 "2019-08-21T04:07:32Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Now you are trying to make [an ass](https://www.google.com/search?q=Buridan%27s+ass&oq=Buridan%27s+ass&aqs=heirloom-srp..) of yourself. I’m not, just trying to wrap my head around how someone claiming that value doesn’t exist and is imaginary can still make decisions like all the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/146 "2019-08-21T04:13:39Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Of course it’s pretending. They pretend that reality’s not real, and that by nuking your brain cells with meditation and/or drugs you can literally erase reality and access a deeper, harder, more trippy REAL reality that something something something who cares. All while reality manifestly ignores their nonsense and keeps on existing. > > And yes, they’re all “no, _you’re_ pretending!”, but they’re dipshits. Dipshits say stupid things that aren’t true. > > But seriously, don’t take MY word on whether or not reality is real. Go out and kick a rock really really hard; if your foot passes through it they’re right. > > Okay, so let’s talk about definitions of words. Specifically, “imaginary”. > > “Imaginary” means “not real”. And merely existing the brain does **not** make something non-real. To be imaginary something has to _not exist_. > > Consider unicorns. Unicorns don’t exist. The _idea_ of unicorns exists, in the minds of people, and also written down on paper and painted into pictures and such. But unicorns themselves don’t exist. They’re imaginary. > > Consider thoughts. Thoughts DO exist. They only exist as part of people’s brain states, but they absolutely exist, because they are really part of people’s brains’ states, and those brains are real. The really brains really have states which really include thoughts. > > That’s what imaginary means. It **doesn’t** mean “in the mind”. It means “not real anywhere”. > > So let’s talk about value. Is value real anywhere? But before that, what _is_ value? > > Value is what a person thinks something is worth. It exists only in the minds of observers. But it **does** exist in the minds of observers. People really do value things, with their real thoughts in their real brain state in their real brains. So value is real. It’s not imaginary. > > When you say that if value exists it would recognized by all, that’s you spouting the lies those moronic shitbags you listen to are spouting. They are wrong about what value is. They are lying about what value is. They are too stupid to know what value is. Take your pick. But either way, these fuckers are spewing nonsense, and you’re parroting it. > > As for “pretending things have value”, don’t be absurd. You _know_ that you value food, and get hungry. You _know_ that you value drink, and get thirsty. You _know_ that “have toilet paper” and “need toilet paper and don’t have it” are not equal-value propositions. > > And the dipshits know it too, because it’s literally impossible to stay alive if you don’t recognize the value of things. If you REALLY reject value you’d go all Buridan’s ass and never eat again. But you do eat, because of course value is real and you damn well know it. A lot of that just sounds like insults without proof, like you’re just saying it’s nonsense without showing how it is so and just saying it. But I know that bit about value, that it still does exist in some form. It might not be objective but the “phenomenon” I guess is. But still: > [@](#): > > Eating is our sole essential consumption and cooking is our one common charity, so you’d think its purpose would be obvious. Yet with a critical eye to the value of time and what we judge to be our higher talents, meal preparation may seldom seem worth it. Cooking for two? Not worth it. Filling the fridge? Not worth it. Sitting to dine? Not worth it. Cleaning up after? Not worth it. Nothing is worth the measure we give it, because worth doesn’t really exist. It is a figment of our judging minds, an imaginary yardstick to measure the imaginary value of imaginary distinctions, and one more way we withhold ourselves from the whole enchilada of life that lies before us. > > If nothing is worth it, why cook? Why shop and chop, boil and toil and clean up after? To engage yourself in the marvel of your own being. To see the priceless in the worthless. To find complete fulfillment in being unfilled. And to eat something other than your own inflated self-importance. That’s what we empty when we empty the bowl, and a busy kitchen gives us the chance to empty ourselves many times a day. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/147 "2019-08-21T20:53:02Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I’m not, just trying to wrap my head around how someone claiming that value doesn’t exist and is imaginary can still make decisions like all the rest. Easy - they don’t practice what they preach. They perceive value in all kinds of things, including sharing their beliefs on blogs. > [@Machinaforce](#): > > A lot of that just sounds like insults without proof, like you’re just saying it’s nonsense without showing how it is so and just saying it. But I know that bit about value, that it still does exist in some form. It might not be objective but the “phenomenon” I guess is. What the what now? Half of what I said was a straightforward analysis of definitions. _By definition_, values aren’t imaginary. When I point out that the fuckers are wrong, lying or confused, that’s insults. Insults with proof, mind you - I had moments previously proved by defintion that values are real, and thus _proved_ that the dipshits quite certainly are wrong, which itself shows that they’re either deliberately lying or inadvertently saying blatant falsehoods because they’re confused. Honestly the only comments that weren’t solidly grounded in hard definitional evidence was calling the falsehood-tellers fuckers and dipshits. Those, I concede, are just expressions of my opinion. > [@Machinaforce](#): > > But still: > > > [@](#): > > > > Eating is our sole essential consumption and cooking is our one common charity, so you’d think its purpose would be obvious. Yet with a critical eye to the value of time and what we judge to be our higher talents, meal preparation may seldom seem worth it. Cooking for two? Not worth it. Filling the fridge? Not worth it. Sitting to dine? Not worth it. Cleaning up after? Not worth it. Nothing is worth the measure we give it, because worth doesn’t really exist. It is a figment of our judging minds, an imaginary yardstick to measure the imaginary value of imaginary distinctions, and one more way we withhold ourselves from the whole enchilada of life that lies before us. > > > > If nothing is worth it, why cook? Why shop and chop, boil and toil and clean up after? To engage yourself in the marvel of your own being. To see the priceless in the worthless. To find complete fulfillment in being unfilled. And to eat something other than your own inflated self-importance. That’s what we empty when we empty the bowl, and a busy kitchen gives us the chance to empty ourselves many times a day. I don’t actually need to eat, and there’s no part of me that wants to eat or values eating. But I guess you noticed that I still eat, which amply demonstrates me to be a liar! Um, er, well, -oh, I know! I eat because it’s _fun_! But not the eating itself; what’s priceless is to do something so pointless and uninteresting as eating, because, er, it’s amusing to waste time! Yeah, that’s it! We’re eating _ironically!_ I’m actually eating my self-importance by doing something silly! I’m mocking myself, emptying my bowls of self-importance by showing I have no value by wasting time on this _eating_ things nonsense! Now excuse me, I need to go get a delicious steak dinner with the money I get from the advertisement income from the traffic on my site. _Ironic_ delicious steak. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/148 "2019-08-23T02:08:37Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Easy - they don’t practice what they preach. They perceive value in all kinds of things, including sharing their beliefs on blogs. > > What the what now? Half of what I said was a straightforward analysis of definitions. _By definition_, values aren’t imaginary. > > When I point out that the fuckers are wrong, lying or confused, that’s insults. Insults with proof, mind you - I had moments previously proved by defintion that values are real, and thus _proved_ that the dipshits quite certainly are wrong, which itself shows that they’re either deliberately lying or inadvertently saying blatant falsehoods because they’re confused. > > Honestly the only comments that weren’t solidly grounded in hard definitional evidence was calling the falsehood-tellers fuckers and dipshits. Those, I concede, are just expressions of my opinion. > > I don’t actually need to eat, and there’s no part of me that wants to eat or values eating. But I guess you noticed that I still eat, which amply demonstrates me to be a liar! Um, er, well, -oh, I know! I eat because it’s _fun_! But not the eating itself; what’s priceless is to do something so pointless and uninteresting as eating, because, er, it’s amusing to waste time! Yeah, that’s it! We’re eating _ironically!_ I’m actually eating my self-importance by doing something silly! I’m mocking myself, emptying my bowls of self-importance by showing I have no value by wasting time on this _eating_ things nonsense! > > Now excuse me, I need to go get a delicious steak dinner with the money I get from the advertisement income from the traffic on my site. _Ironic_ delicious steak. Well on the topic of NEED there are some that suggest that one can overcome sleep and sexual desire by recognizing such things as false. In the case of sexual desire they say it is false because it disappears as soon as the object of desire does: [http://www.buddhism.org/?p=435](http://www.buddhism.org/?p=435) But as for value I might have to concede to you. Even when I first saw that I knew it was wonky from the get go,but because it was Buddhist I could not ignore it. Though now I am seeing that it is different and that just being Buddhist doesn’t make it special. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/149 "2019-08-23T03:04:37Z")
But it does get back to the major point that most of what we take to be real, like sexual desire, is not. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/150 "2019-08-23T16:55:02Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Well on the topic of NEED there are some that suggest that one can overcome sleep and sexual desire by recognizing such things as false. In the case of sexual desire they say it is false because it disappears as soon as the object of desire does: [Method of Overcoming Sexual Desire and Sleep – Seon Buddhism](http://www.buddhism.org/?p=435) > [@Machinaforce](#): > > But it does get back to the major point that most of what we take to be real, like sexual desire, is not. Oh my god - when that link finally finished loading I learned that they were just talking about staying awake and tamping down your horndog thoughts _while mediating!_ And here I thought you were pointing me at yogas who were claiming that they could stay awake forever through force of will! It’s laughable that anyone would think that these things are arguments for values or needs not being real. > [@Machinaforce](#): > > But as for value I might have to concede to you. Even when I first saw that I knew it was wonky from the get go,but because it was Buddhist I could not ignore it. Though now I am seeing that it is different and that just being Buddhist doesn’t make it special. Yep, value is a thing. Progress! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/151 "2019-08-23T17:06:28Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Well on the topic of NEED there are some that suggest that one can overcome sleep and sexual desire by recognizing such things as false. Go ahead and see what happens when you attempt to overcome the desire for sleep for more than a few days. Go on and report back. > [@Machinaforce](#): > > In the case of sexual desire they say it is false because it disappears as soon as the object of desire does: [http://www.buddhism.org/?p=435](http://www.buddhism.org/?p=435) > [@Machinaforce](#): > > But it does get back to the major point that most of what we take to be real, like sexual desire, is not. “They” say a lot of dumb things. Overcoming the desire for something does not in any way make the desire not real. Desires, like all emotions, are temporary states of mind. It is not inherently wrong to experience sexual desire, or any other kind of desire for that matter. It’s fair to claim that some desires may be unwelcome and should not be acted upon. But there is no scientific basis for them not being real. Quoting Buddhism to support a false claims is about as compelling as quoting Scientology to support the existence of thetans. I wish you would stop spouting this nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/152 "2019-08-23T17:07:48Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Oh my god - when that link finally finished loading I learned … I admire your commitment. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/153 "2019-08-23T18:20:14Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I admire your commitment. It wasn’t too special; I just didn’t bother closing the tab, and before hitting ‘submit reply’ happened to check it and noticed that it a) had loaded, and b) said laughably less that I’d expected it would. I had to rip out most of my reply due to it being overkill for the triviality in question! ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/154 "2019-08-24T05:20:29Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > It wasn’t too special; I just didn’t bother closing the tab, and before hitting ‘submit reply’ happened to check it and noticed that it a) had loaded, and b) said laughably less that I’d expected it would. I had to rip out most of my reply due to it being overkill for the triviality in question! OK so the link was dumb, even I had to admit that. But wouldn’t living life according to reality be what we strive for? So why pretend that value doesn’t exist when in “reality” it doesn’t? Just like how our conceptions of things don’t exist outside of our heads. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/155 "2019-08-24T05:32:51Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > OK so the link was dumb, even I had to admit that. > > But wouldn’t living life according to reality be what we strive for? So why pretend that value doesn’t exist when in “reality” it doesn’t? Please explain: is there some . . . _value_ . . . in living life according to reality? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/156 "2019-08-24T14:23:38Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Just like how our conceptions of things don’t exist outside of our heads. It’s the nature of thought and conscience of the human condition that concepts exist in our heads. Where do they keep such things in the world that you come from? ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/157 "2019-08-25T04:12:39Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Please explain: is there some . . . _value_ . . . in living life according to reality? I don’t know, I’m still trying to puzzle what she said out. If nothing is “worth it” why tell me about this way of life? I’m up the wall trying to figure it out. IT’s pretty much what the nihilists said, but for some reason her saying it makes it more real (though I don’t know why). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/158 "2019-08-25T10:18:36Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I don’t know, I’m still trying to puzzle what she said out. If nothing is “worth it” why tell me about this way of life? I’m up the wall trying to figure it out. IT’s pretty much what the nihilists said, but for some reason her saying it makes it more real (though I don’t know why). _That’s_ what you should be ‘up the wall trying to figure out’. Not what she’s saying; why hearing it from her, instead of from someone else, “makes it more real”. Have you noticed this sort of thing in any other context? Does it occur to you as you mull hypotheticals? Is there something you’d hear from a Catholic priest, and reject; and then hear from a Marxist atheist, and reject; but if you hear it from a guy who thinks Poseidon, brother of Hades and the uncle of mighty Heracles, rules the seas and chooses when to send earthquakes, you’d say, _“whoa, hearing it from that guy makes it more real! The other two didn’t have me up the wall trying to figure stuff out; but him saying pretty much the same thing, wow!”_ ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055/159 "2019-08-26T20:51:29Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I don’t know, I’m still trying to puzzle what she said out. If nothing is “worth it” why tell me about this way of life? I’m up the wall trying to figure it out. IT’s pretty much what the nihilists said, but for some reason her saying it makes it more real (though I don’t know why). What “this way of life” do you mean? Buddhism? Because I think that most followers of Buddhism don’t think that Buddhism is anything like what you think it’s like. Not that I’m really up on what Buddhists think since I have better things to do with my time (there’s an idle clicker app that wants my attention), but I get the distinct impression that things you take literally they take figuratively and that the things you take to be tolls of doom sound like opening shackles to them. It probably helps that most people seem perfectly okay with there being substantial quantities of nonsense in their religion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-value-imaginary/837055.md?page=7)