# Is Veganism a moral philosophy, a political position, or just a lifestyle preference? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 31, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940 "2004-05-31T18:31:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/1 "2004-05-31T18:31:31Z")
In this thread [Vegans and Abortion](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=258939) the issue of whether Veganism is moral philosophy or just a dietary plan is addressed tangentially to the OP. It is an interesting question though and I’d like to address it in more detail here. Some of the sites say Veganism is quite manifestly a moral philsophy. [(Written for the Fruitarian Network Newsletter) - By Mango](http://www.fruitnut.net/index2.htm?PAG=50Vegan,REF=) > [@](#): > > Despite frequent claims contrarily, I wish to clearly emphasize here that veganism is most definitely not a diet. > > It is a blatant statement of nonviolence and compassion toward other sentient beings. Veganism, as a concept, has never been, and never will be, a diet… This is just a popular misconception based on the fact that diet becomes such a relevant issue once opting for a vegan lifestyle… Indeed, the term vegan itself has only been around since the mid 1940’s when it was coined in Britain, and implies a serious attempt at Ahimsa, the Sanskrit term for dynamic harmlessness … - A statement of nonviolence and compassion, which on a more practical level boils predominantly down to an attempt to abolish ethically unacceptable items from our consumer choices. - mostly this is taken to mean anything which originates or has part origins from within the animal exploitation industry. > > Clearly, the dietary issue, although playing such a fundamental role in the average vegan life, is basically just an unavoidable side issue, and does not encompass the general essence of veganism. Others seem to kinda-sorta want it both ways Grassroots Veganism with Jo Stepaniak > [@](#): > > In late 1944, The Vegan Society was established, advocating a totally plant-based diet excluding flesh, fish, fowl, eggs, honey, and animals’ milk, butter, and cheese, and also encouraging the manufacture and use of alternatives to animal commodities, including clothing and shoes. The group argued that the elimination of exploitation of any kind was necessary in order to bring about a more reasonable and humane society. From its inception, veganism was defined as a “philosophy” and “way of living.” It was never intended to be merely a diet and, still today, describes a lifestyle and belief system that revolves around a reverence for life > [@](#): > > What is the official vegan stance on abortion? > > No moral dilemma exists that is quite like the issue of abortion. A fetus grows within and is dependent on the pregnant woman carrying it, so the situation is distinctly different from that of animals or humans already born and conspicuously alive. Simple observation readily confirms the obvious with regard to the suffering of people and animals. The question of when life begins, however, is an enigmatic matter that has sparked passionate political, legal, and ecclesiastical debate. > > Vegans are all across the board in their view of abortion. Although many vegans feel that abortion is a relevant vegan issue, there is no consensus of opinion. Even vegans who have parallel points of view on most matters often come to very different conclusions on this one. This is because determining when life begins is a complex and subjective affair, one which frequently involves spiritual or religious considerations as well. Consequently, this issue is just as contentious and no easier to resolve within the bounds of veganism than it is in the general public. > > Veganism is not a theology. Hence vegans come from a diverse range of backgrounds and outlooks. Because vegans do not share a uniform position on abortion, there is no “official stance.” This matter is best resolved by individual practitioners in the context of their personal perspectives or spiritual beliefs. [While others see it more as a political statement against animal exploitation and suffering - Vegan Outreach.](http://www.veganoutreach.org/advocacy/path.html) > [@](#): > > Activism and Veganism - Matt Ball > In the past twenty years, the animal rights (AR) movement has made the public aware of many issues concerning animals. During this time, unfortunately, per-capita meat consumption has risen, and the number of animals killed in the United States has increased by hundreds of millions each year. > > It may be possible to help small numbers of animals by stopping blatant, socially unacceptable forms of cruelty. But true animal liberation can only be possible by changing deeply ingrained patterns of thought about animals–specifically, that animals exist for humans to use. [And finally some see it mainly as being about healthy living - The Vegan Society](http://www.vegansociety.com/html/) > [@](#): > > Welcome to the official website of The Vegan Society. For free, there is a wealth of information on veganism, healthy eating, food & drink, animal free shopping and all you need to know about an ethical and compassionate lifestyle that benefits humans, animals and the environment. > > We have detailed information on nutrition especially as it relates to the vegan diet answering questions about vitamin B12, iodine, calcium and many other essential nutrients. The site is particularly useful as a resource for schools, doctors, health care professionals, caterers, food manufacturers and the media. Veganism can’t be all things to all people or the word becomes meaningless. Which is it? ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/2 "2004-05-31T18:36:55Z")
There’s no one standard thing vegan stands for. It depends on the person, much like vegetarianism. You’ll find vegetarians that are that way because of animal rights, health concerns or because they’ve just always been that way. There’s no one box everyone fits neatly into. I’ve been vegan for 7 years, and for different reasons at different times. I started for health reasons. Then I stopped caring so much about health reasons and did it for animal rights. Then that sort of faded and it was more a matter of “eating the flesh and fluids of animals is icky.” I never tried to push my beliefs on anyone else, though. Now it’s more a matter of “well, I’ve just always been this way.” with a heaping side of “eating the flesh and fluids of animals is icky”. People are different, simple as that, so it shouldn’t be too much of a shock that they engage in a certain way of living for different reasons. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/3 "2004-05-31T18:57:53Z")
> [@lezlers](#): > > There’s no one standard thing vegan stands for. It depends on the person, much like vegetarianism. You’ll find vegetarians that are that way because of animal rights, health concerns or because they’ve just always been that way. There’s no one box everyone fits neatly into. > > I’ve been vegan for 7 years, and for different reasons at different times. I started for health reasons. Then I stopped caring so much about health reasons and did it for animal rights. Then that sort of faded and it was more a matter of “eating the flesh and fluids of animals is icky.” I never tried to push my beliefs on anyone else, though. Now it’s more a matter of “well, I’ve just always been this way.” with a heaping side of “eating the flesh and fluids of animals is icky”. > > People are different, simple as that, so it shouldn’t be too much of a shock that they engage in a certain way of living for different reasons. If that’s really the case then isn’t it kind of a distinction without a difference? Why not just call yourself a “strict vegetarian”. Doesn’t calling yourself a “Vegan” imply _some_ fairly profound and definable difference from simply being a vegetarian. If it’s really that amorphous aren’t a lot of people calling themselves “Vegans” simply vegetarians trying to be trendy and cool? ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/4 "2004-05-31T23:39:07Z")
**Is Veganism a moral philosophy, a political position, or just a lifestyle preference?** Actually, I rather like the phrase “delusional belief system.” It’s much nicer, and more accurate, I think, than “form of mental illness.” ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/5 "2004-06-01T00:09:40Z")
> [@astro](#): > > If that’s really the case then isn’t it kind of a distinction without a difference? Why not just call yourself a “strict vegetarian”. Doesn’t calling yourself a “Vegan” imply _some_ fairly profound and definable difference from simply being a vegetarian. If it’s really that amorphous aren’t a lot of people calling themselves “Vegans” simply vegetarians trying to be trendy and cool? “Vegetarian” is a broad category; it includes a variety of people, including people who are willing to consume eggs or dairy products. “Vegan” just means the subset of those who do not consume eggs or dairy products (and in some cases, honey). This seems like a perfectly good distinction to me, especially if I want to know what people I’m liable to want to feed are willing to eat. “Strict vegetarian” tells me that I should double-check my labels and that the person isn’t one of those folks who might be willing to flex for a splash of chicken stock or eat fish; it doesn’t tell me that pasta in cream sauce will not be acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/6 "2004-06-01T00:15:26Z")
I think it depends on the person. For some, it is a religion. For others, it is a lifestyle choice. The line is really between where they start projecting their values on other people. Especially when they judge you. Especially when they say that consuming/using animal products means that you hate animals and nature. Those ones are bastards. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/7 "2004-06-01T00:19:56Z")
Dude, it’s just a diet. Whatever philosphical/political/ethical assocaitions which are attached to it are done so on a purely individual basis. I was (briefly) a vegan myself and I did solely for health reasons. The term “vegan” is used because it represents a clear demarkation from vegetarians who consume some animal products. “Strict vegetarian” would still be a little ambiguous as to its meaning. People know what “vegan” means, so that’s the word that’s used. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/8 "2004-06-01T00:47:56Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > People know what “vegan” means, so that’s the word that’s used. Do they? Just reading the posts in this thread makes me wonder. I always thought a vegan was much more than a “strict vegitarian” or “someone who doesn’t even eat eggs”. I thought a vegan was someone who wouldn’t, for example, use any leather products. That implies a certain philosphy about how to treat animals (ie, not to kill them) rather than just a desire not to eat meat. I realize there can’t be some monolithic belief system, but it does seem that being a vegan means you have some general philosphical stance that a plain ol’ vegitarian might not. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/9 "2004-06-01T00:55:57Z")
If a person does not eat any animal products then, by definition, that person is a vegan. The motive for such a diet is not part of the definition. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/10 "2004-06-01T00:59:39Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > If a person does not eat any animal products then, by definition, that person is a vegan. The motive for such a diet is not part of the definition. Not only ‘eat’ but use animal products. Of course - the ‘vegans’ I know also drive cars and use oil. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/11 "2004-06-01T01:02:13Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Whatever philosphical/political/ethical assocaitions which are attached to it are done so on a purely individual basis. I was (briefly) a vegan myself and I did solely for health reasons. > > The term “vegan” is used because it represents a clear demarkation from vegetarians who consume some animal products. “Strict vegetarian” would still be a little ambiguous as to its meaning. People know what “vegan” means, so that’s the word that’s used. …so “vegan” doesn’t mean “strict vegetarian?” All the vegans I have known drew very sharp lines between themselves and vegetarians in the area of vegetables. Apparently, fruit was okay to eat, because fruit was basically a delivery system for seeds, and would just rot or be eaten by animals if vegans didn’t eat it, right? Other vegetables – lettuce, for example – was bad news, because you had to kill the plant itself to eat it. Corn was bad, because you were eating the seeds, and therefore robbing potential corn of a happy, fulfilling corn life. After meeting several people like this, I decided that “vegan” was a term intended by the Secret Masters of the World to denote “person who is flaky” and left it at that. There are health benefits to being a vegan? Health benefits not accessible to vegetarians? ---
**Author:** ![SallyStar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SallyStar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SallyStar)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/12 "2004-06-01T01:02:16Z")
**Is Veganism a moral philosophy, a political position, or just a lifestyle preference?** None of the above … _“neither human meat eaters nor vegetarians have a problem when animals eat each other.”_ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/13 "2004-06-01T01:04:54Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > If a person does not eat any animal products then, by definition, that person is a vegan. The motive for such a diet is not part of the definition. So, a “vegan” wearing a leather coat is not a walking contradiction? ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/14 "2004-06-01T01:07:57Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > So, a “vegan” wearing a leather coat is not a walking contradiction? Christ — a vegan would never ever wear a leather coat ------ but they would forget and drive a car or take a bus or heat their homes ---- no first hand doubt. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/15 "2004-06-01T01:18:09Z")
> [@Master Wang-Ka](#): > > …so “vegan” doesn’t mean “strict vegetarian?” > > All the vegans I have known drew very sharp lines between themselves and vegetarians in the area of vegetables. Apparently, fruit was okay to eat, because fruit was basically a delivery system for seeds, and would just rot or be eaten by animals if vegans didn’t eat it, right? > > Other vegetables – lettuce, for example – was bad news, because you had to kill the plant itself to eat it. Corn was bad, because you were eating the seeds, and therefore robbing potential corn of a happy, fulfilling corn life. > > After meeting several people like this, I decided that “vegan” was a term intended by the Secret Masters of the World to denote “person who is flaky” and left it at that. > > There are health benefits to being a vegan? Health benefits not accessible to vegetarians? I think you may thiinking of [a fruitarian](http://www.fruitnut.net/index2.htm?PAG=50Vegan,REF=) > [@](#): > > Fruit is the one food that is offered to us “free of charge” in the karmic sense. There is no taking of life, instead the fruit is offered as part of a symbiotic pact between plant, animal and the earth. The plant remains intact and benefits from the interaction. - It gets to reproduce itself. What bliss, what joy! Not only does it get to reproduce through the sowing of it’s seed, but also the more delicious the fruit, the more chance that we will nurture that seed and, feed, water and care for it, until and after it brings to bare it’s own fruit. > > Eating fruit only, gives those screaming little carrots the benefit of the doubt, and lets them fulfill their birth rights by living out their lives to their natural conclusions, where they become warty, old, wrinkled and crinkly, and sow their seeds to the wind as nature intended. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/16 "2004-06-01T01:26:35Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > Christ — a vegan would never ever wear a leather coat That’s bullshit. I was a vegan who wore a leather coat. I’ve known other vegans who wore leather. I knew a vegan who hunted. It’s just a diet. Non-dietary sues of animal products have nothing to do with the definition although many vegans _also_ shun other uses of animals, they don’t _have_ to in order to be vegans. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/17 "2004-06-01T01:36:53Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > That’s bullshit. I was a vegan who wore a leather coat. I’ve known other vegans who wore leather. I knew a vegan who hunted. It’s just a diet. Non-dietary sues of animal products have nothing to do with the definition although many vegans _also_ shun other uses of animals, they don’t _have_ to in order to be vegans. Thanks for your kind response **Diogenes** - but “bullshit” aside — somethiing the vegans I know would never utter (cow or otherwise) If you were a vegan and wore leather coats besides - fine. I know have a new defintion. ‘Some’ people who call themsleves vegans use ‘some’ animal products. Where the boundry is is yet to be defined. Hey – the language is elastic. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/18 "2004-06-01T01:46:27Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > That’s bullshit. I was a vegan who wore a leather coat. I’ve known other vegans who wore leather. I knew a vegan who hunted. It’s just a diet. Non-dietary sues of animal products have nothing to do with the definition although many vegans _also_ shun other uses of animals, they don’t _have_ to in order to be vegans. Other than your self definition, I can’t find anything in Vegan site literature or cites that could encompass a true “vegan”, under even the most plastic definition of the term, wearing a leather coat. Only under the most abjectly lazy and uninformed use of the term “Vegan” is it “just a diet”. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/19 "2004-06-01T01:53:07Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Other than your self definition, I can’t find anything in Vegan site literature or cites that could encompass a true “vegan”, under even the most plastic definition of the term, wearing a leather coat. > > Only under the most abjectly lazy and uninformed use of the term “Vegan” is it “just a diet”. You’re the one who’s trying to make the definition more “plastic” by expanding it to include anything other than a dietary choice. Veganism is simply a description of what a person _eats_. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940/20 "2004-06-01T01:56:01Z")
Can’t we try an easier task here? Like defining what a Christian believes? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-veganism-a-moral-philosophy-a-political-position-or-just-a-lifestyle-preference/247940.md?page=2)