# Is "w" really a vowel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 29, 2005, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-w-really-a-vowel/314707 "2005-07-29T06:47:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lilemmie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/df705f/32.png) [@lilemmie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilemmie)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-w-really-a-vowel/314707/1 "2005-07-29T06:47:42Z")
In elementary school, my teacher taught me the vowel song which states that “A, E, I, O, and U are the vowels and sometimes Y and W.” I understand how Y could be a vowel for words like “fly” and “why” but I can’t think of any examples in which W would be used as a vowel. Is “w” really used as a vowel, or is that song just messed up? ---
**Author:** ![Electronic\_Chaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Electronic\_Chaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electronic_Chaos)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-w-really-a-vowel/314707/2 "2005-07-29T06:53:03Z")
I’ve never in my life heard that “W” can be a vowel. That’s not to say that your teacher was incorrect. It would be helpful to know the timeframe and location that your teacher told you this. ---
**Author:** ![Pullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Pullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pullet)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-w-really-a-vowel/314707/3 "2005-07-29T06:54:41Z")
[The Master Speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_246.html) When will you learn that all important questions have already been answered by Cecil??? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-w-really-a-vowel/314707/4 "2005-07-29T06:59:59Z")
Look at it another way: I can’t think of any words where W is used as anything other than a vowel. Say a word with a W in it very slowly, and think about what exactly your mouth is doing as you’re saying it. When you hit the W, your mouth is making a vowel shape. ---
**Author:** ![AmbushBug](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ambushbug/32/4600_2.png) [@AmbushBug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmbushBug)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-w-really-a-vowel/314707/5 "2005-07-29T07:02:33Z")
Cecil’s article mentions the word “cwm”, which is Welsh. I think the Welsh language is full of such usage of the w-as-vowel; or at least that’s the impression I got from a co-worker of mine, who is an Welshman. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-w-really-a-vowel/314707/6 "2005-07-29T07:43:58Z")
> [@AmbushBug](#): > > Cecil’s article mentions the word “cwm”, which is Welsh. I think the Welsh language is full of such usage of the w-as-vowel; or at least that’s the impression I got from a co-worker of mine, who is an Welshman. 😃 The welsh have to use w as a vowel, the hawiians snuck over and stole most of them so they had to make due with w=) ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-w-really-a-vowel/314707/7 "2005-07-29T08:50:06Z")
> [@lilemmie](#): > > In elementary school, my teacher taught me the vowel song which states that “A, E, I, O, and U are the vowels and sometimes Y and W.” I understand how Y could be a vowel for words like “fly” and “why” but I can’t think of any examples in which W would be used as a vowel. Is “w” really used as a vowel, or is that song just messed up? w = double u :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-w-really-a-vowel/314707/8 "2005-07-29T10:24:18Z")
Well, the confusion arises when describing the **function** of the letter. In the case of English, it represents a glide/semi-vowel. In the case of Welsh, its function is to represent /u/ (close back rounded) or /U/ (almost fully close back vowel). The form is considered a consonant, because the traditional idea of a vowel’s _phonetic representation_ is a, e, i, o, or u. When the sound of W is described in English, it’s a semi vowel. In Welsh it’s described as /u/ or /U/. In other languages, W represents anything from /v/ (as in victory), /w/ as in “water”, to /u/ as in “cwm” In Hawai’ian, the situation of W is more complex than it seems. It does not always represent /v/, sometimes it represents /w/: 1. after i and e like V - 2. after o and u like W 3. after a and initially like either W or V