# Is watching over my female relatives as they leave the house sexist? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 11, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429 "2009-10-11T20:42:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![maladroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@maladroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maladroit)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/81 "2009-10-15T19:40:58Z")
Without reading the other posts yet, she does have a point imho. She told you how she feels, and how she feels is how she feels. But personally I don’t feel the same way she does. I think it shows consideration to watch out for people’s safety and health. If it bugs her enough to mention then you should abide by her wishes, it’s such a small thing. eta: My family doesn’t gather often and so we end up having lots of last minute conversations at the door, with the door open, left-overs in hand. Seems normal to walk people out to say goodbye. ---
**Author:** ![maladroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@maladroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maladroit)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/82 "2009-10-15T19:58:30Z")
I suppose it’s sexist but I still don’t think it’s bad. When I’m dropping of anyone, male of female, I always make sure they get inside safely before aI leave. It’s just curteous. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/83 "2009-10-15T20:02:19Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > I’m still trying to figure out how these lady motorists made it all the way across town unescorted. Hey, they’re Rhymers. They’re FIERCE. When my baby sister was in 3rd grade, two 4th graders jumped her for some strange reasons, and she kicked both their asses (in the process destroying my Planet of the Apes lunchbox). ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/84 "2009-10-15T20:25:11Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face; 11665694] Wouldn’t it be strange if women expected to be escorted to the door when arriving to **Skald’s**? Upon driving up and parking, they would then call **Skald** to inform him that they’d arrived so that he could come out, greet them at their cars, and then walk with them to the ouse. Wouldn’t that be a weird expectation? [/QUOTE] I am from Holland. Isn’t that vierd? Yesh! [sub]In Soviet Russia, Female walk YOU![/sub] ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/85 "2009-10-15T20:48:23Z")
It’s one half of a U LOSE pair. If you do walk her to the car, you are being ‘too smothering’. If you do not, you are ‘thoughtless / uncaring / inconsiderate’. Either way, guess what? U LOSE. Some people like to be judgmental and they have these U LOSE pairs all ready to go in their heads, so that no matter what you do they can deliver a negative verdict and… no surprise… U LOSE! It’s not a uniquely female trait. Some women do it, some men do it. Fortunately, if my personal experience is anything to go by, not many people behave like this, and most of the time people are a little more reasonable in their views. But it’s always worth watching out for U LOSE pairs. They crop up a lot in the workplace as well. If you pretty much just do as you’re told and don’t bother to hatch ideas, you get faulted for ‘lacking initiative’. If you show buckets of initiative and want to introduce new ideas and do your own thing, someone will come along and say you ‘aren’t a team player’ or ‘can’t follow simple procedures’ or ‘has a non-compliant nature’ or ‘has a problem with authority’. Never get trapped in these U LOSE pairs. Just say you don’t accept the judgment because if you had done X they would only have said Y. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/86 "2009-10-15T21:34:51Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Hey, they’re Rhymers. They’re FIERCE. And yet, cannot make it out of the driveway. Your yard sounds dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/87 "2009-10-15T21:39:55Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > And yet, cannot make it out of the driveway. > > Your yard sounds dangerous. She wasn’t there. Upon reading the thread and thinking things through, I have decided that my wife has a point. (I always thought she might.) Oddly enough, the posts most persuasive to that POV were Huerta88’s. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/88 "2009-10-15T21:59:07Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Oddly enough, the posts most persuasive to that POV were Huerta88’s. Happy to be of help, I guess. I still think that the point, if any, would be a very minor one that someone motivated to working on fixing things would ignore in favor of the big issues that count (I know I bit my tongue a lot of times on non-central peeves in troubled relationships that I was trying to save), but good luck. Here’s a no-cost going-forward screening device, BTW: I assume you’ll have future interactions with her. If my posited theory, that she was picking a fight on a contrived issue to assuage her guilt, to generate drama, to express her disgust at a relationship in which she no longer feels attraction, has any truth to it – this won’t be the last time a heretofore unknown and allegedly-festering gripe, character flaw of yours, need to change, comes up. See if this pattern repeats itself, and if it does, ask yourself: how many hitherto-unremarked but fight-worthy character flaws could one man suddenly discover? How many things that I thought were nice gestures could actually turn out to be tools of oppression? How many vague and unfalsifiable pejorative adjectives like “smothering” could I turn out to be guilty of qualifying for? Now, if this fact pattern never happens again – great, she’s simply saying what she means, and means what she says. But again, know that for many women, that is not the default mode; women’s reputation as great communicators is mostly self-coined – great users of words would be a better description, and you do see the difference . . . . ---
**Author:** ![abbeytxs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@abbeytxs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abbeytxs)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/89 "2009-10-15T22:13:24Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > A lower threshold of pain. Could you please post your research on this? I have a really hard time believing that women have a lower threshold of pain. I also wonder how something as subjective as pain could be quantified and measured in an objective way. ---
**Author:** ![OleOneEye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f14d63/32.png) [@OleOneEye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OleOneEye)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/90 "2009-10-15T22:28:02Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > I still think that the point, if any, would be a very minor one that someone motivated to working on fixing things would ignore in favor of the big issues that count Feeling smothered is minor? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/91 "2009-10-15T22:28:12Z")
> [@abbeytxs](#): > > Could you please post your research on this? I have a really hard time believing that women have a lower threshold of pain. I also wonder how something as subjective as pain could be quantified and measured in an objective way. It doesn’t take much imagination for me to figure out objective protocols, and I’m apparently not alone. [http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=51160](http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=51160) > **[Women Feel More Pain Than Men, Research Shows](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/07/050705004113.htm#)** > > Women feel pain more than men despite the popular notion that the opposite is true, according to research by the University of Bath, in England. > > Scientists investigating gender differences in pain have found that not only do women report more pain... ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/92 "2009-10-15T22:34:40Z")
> [@OleOneEye](#): > > Feeling smothered is minor? “Feeling smothered” is or can be a generic meaningless synonym for “I don’t value your attention anymore so I am going to turn any attentive or kind gesture or service on it’s head and make it a negative.” Being walked out to the car is (1) not a big deal in and of itself; (2) positively-motivated if I am reading the OP right; (3) not a big deal. “Feeling smothered” is BS more times than not. Married people spend time together, as do friendly people not married or not together but still friends. They do nice things for each other. She never called this “smothering” before. Either she’s a long-suffering martyr, or too terrified to speak up till now, or, something’s changed, which I posited were her feelings toward him and her diminished attraction. “Feeling smothered,” that is, generally doesn’t mean anything real. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/93 "2009-10-15T22:37:10Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > She wasn’t there. > > Upon reading the thread and thinking things through, I have decided that my wife has a point. (I always thought she might.) Oddly enough, the posts most persuasive to that POV were Huerta88’s. How exactly did you get that from Huerta’s posts, if you don’t mind my asking? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/94 "2009-10-15T22:42:49Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > How exactly did you get that from Huerta’s posts, if you don’t mind my asking? Kind of curious myself. My initial guess was that my citation to the ancient history of chivalry might have convinced himself that it must be part of the Big Bad Old Days, which we’re told are Generally Bad. But my speculations as to the man’s thought process are . . . unworthy of the phosphors. ETA that regardless of what he does, I’m curious and hope he’ll share on the point I add – if he does/not abjectly apologize for rank “sexism,” does that cure the problem and win back her good grace, or do we somehow see a series of new gripes emerging following the same pattern? ---
**Author:** ![OleOneEye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f14d63/32.png) [@OleOneEye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OleOneEye)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/95 "2009-10-15T22:49:31Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > “Feeling smothered” is or can be a generic meaningless synonym for “I don’t value your attention anymore so I am going to turn any attentive or kind gesture or service on it’s head and make it a negative.” Or it can mean “Your behavior makes me feel like a helpless child instead of an equal.” At least that’s what I mean when I say it about my family. > [@Huerta88](#): > > She never called this “smothering” before. Either she’s a long-suffering martyr, or too terrified to speak up till now My money’s on this one. Maybe not terrified, but people sometimes have trouble articulating their feelings and asking for what they want. Especially when other people react instead of listening and responding. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/96 "2009-10-15T23:23:46Z")
> [@OleOneEye](#): > > Or it can mean “Your behavior makes me feel like a helpless child instead of an equal.” At least that’s what I mean when I say it about my family. > > My money’s on this one. Maybe not terrified, but people sometimes have trouble articulating their feelings and asking for what they want. Especially when other people react instead of listening and responding. And Occam’s money’s on she didn’t complain before because there was nothing real to complain about. Always amazes me how people will multiply assumptions to justify (possible) bad female behaviot. We had a poster in the Hofstra fake rape case inventing out of nowhere the likelihood that she’s consented to sex with one guy bur, like, the other four were nonconsensual. Going to special lengths to protect and justify vulnerable women? I’m surely not alone in savoring the irony of the primo chivalric impulses behind those defending the “aggrieved” women. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/97 "2009-10-15T23:42:01Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > And Occam’s money’s on she didn’t complain before because there was nothing real to complain about. This doesn’t make any sense. She left him. Why would she do that if everything between them was okay? Oh because she’s a woman! What could I ever be thinking by questioning this logic? > [@](#): > > Always amazes me how people will multiply assumptions to justify (possible) bad female behaviot. It’s like you’re a broken record. Almost every post of yours reads like some anti-female screed dripping with contempt and bitterness. Consider, if you can, that this is exactly why **Skald** is leaning towards his wife on this. It’s hard to be sympathetic with any side that you’re advocating for. Even though you’re siding with _him_! ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/98 "2009-10-16T03:36:22Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > This doesn’t make any sense. She left him. Why would she do that if everything between them was okay? Let’s be real precise: neither you nor me thinks everything between them is okay. She left him, and I am on record as saying, she fo’ real meant that. My “Occam” statement was about her **post-breakup and apparently unprecedented** supplemental nitpick about his terrible horrible car-escorting habits. Maybe I mis-read the OP (not kidding, I do sometimes) but nothing therein told me that she WALKED OUT ON THE MARRIAGE while citing his “car-walking” or “smothering” ways – I kinda sorta inferred she walked out with a “it’s just not working out” excuse. None of my business, but AFAICT, the record was clear of any “smothering” allegations till last week, which strongly suggests some ex post facto rationalizing. So, you and I agree that everything between them was “not okay.” All I posited was that what had changed to being “not okay” was that she lost her attraction for him. It’s speculation on my part – for sure. I am right (60%, in my estimation) or wrong (40%). But it’s a coherent theory. And, it does not challenge Occam. When he made her tingle – she didn’t resent his attentiveness. When he stopped – what the Hell is this guy doing “hovering” over me? > [@](#): > > Oh because she’s a woman! What could I ever be thinking by questioning this logic? Women are not men. At least one of the data points I cited to demonstrated this. One can like and advocate dating women, and still understand the differences. Hey, interesting point: one of the possible reasons, on my theory, why the OP’s wife might fib to him about her motives? COMPASSION. I assume she’s not some sultana of evil. If her real problem is (as I guess, I don’t know) that she’s lost some attraction for him – what the Hell is a nice easy way for her to let him know, hey, I’m less tolerant of your flaws or “flaws” because you no longer make me tingle? Isn’t it easier to pick a dramatic fight that will stage a final blowup? I can actually marginally sympathize with that approach from a woman, schooled as women are in needing to provide a simulacrum of “nice behavior.” > [@](#): > > It’s like you’re a broken record. It’s like I am advocating on a logically-consistent basis! I can understand that don’t work on Sadie Hawkins night, which seems to be every night in relationship threads at SDMB. > [@](#): > > Consider, if you can, that this is exactly why **Skald** is leaning towards his wife on this. It’s hard to be sympathetic with any side that you’re advocating for. Even though you’re siding with _him_! I’ve considered that – the guy has a clear choice, and I may be wrong, and I may be right. And he may take the chivalric forgive-and-apologize-for-her-rude-conduct route. I hope he does well. He can choose the female-apologist-friendly route, crawl back to the woman who isn’t certain she wants him, and see how that works, or he can say – you know what, I’m not invested in finding (chivalric) excuses for what is superficially rude. **I may be wrong** in my handicapping. If I am, and if **Skald** comes back and tells us that kowtowing saved his marriage, I do promise I will come back and make a post saying (and this is OTT, because to be fair, I know you, **ywtf** , have not yet advocated for his ex, specifically): “Good on you **Skald** and Mrs., and to those who defended Mrs., I was wrong in this case.” Call me out if he does and I don’t. And, good luck to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![OleOneEye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f14d63/32.png) [@OleOneEye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OleOneEye)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/99 "2009-10-16T04:34:30Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > My “Occam” statement was about her **post-breakup and apparently unprecedented** supplemental nitpick about his terrible horrible car-escorting habits. Maybe I mis-read the OP (not kidding, I do sometimes) but nothing therein told me that she WALKED OUT ON THE MARRIAGE while citing his “car-walking” or “smothering” ways Or this had been bothering her for a long time, but she didn’t know how to put it into words. And I’m guessing if she’s feeling “smothered”, this is probably not the only behavior that has made her feel that way - it’s just the most recent. > [@Huerta88](#): > > So, you and I agree that everything between them was “not okay.” All I posited was that what had changed to being “not okay” was that she lost her attraction for him. Behavior that makes you feel bad can be(come) unattractive. > [@Huerta88](#): > > And, it does not challenge Occam. When he made her tingle – she didn’t resent his attentiveness. When he stopped – what the Hell is this guy doing “hovering” over me? I don’t know. It may have started with tiny little things that she dismissed at the time. People don’t always trust their feelings. I had a friend once whose behavior made me feel smothered. It started with little things - I’d ask him to help me with homework, and he’d take over and do the assignment for me - and I didn’t trust my feelings. It only escalated over time. > [@Huerta88](#): > > If I am, and if **Skald** comes back and tells us that kowtowing saved his marriage Who said anything about kowtowing? He needs to decide whether the benefit he gets from his behavior is more important than her feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429/100 "2009-10-16T06:03:51Z")
> [@OleOneEye](#): > > And I’m guessing if she’s feeling “smothered”, this is probably not the only behavior that has made her feel that way - it’s just the most recent. **Skald** has the total ability to make me look like a tool, but otherwise – I revert to my Occam note – your “I’m guessing” amounts to “I’m multiplying assumption upon assumption to make the lady seem awesome when otherwise she comes across as . . . . not .” Why would you (as a default) “guess” that way? What about the OP, who seems the consummate nice guy nerd, hardly some drug dealer dominator biatch-slapping pimp, whose sole expressed desire is to save his marriage, inclines you to such a “guess?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-watching-over-my-female-relatives-as-they-leave-the-house-sexist/513429.md?page=6)