# Is "West End Girls" a rap? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 30, 2018, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900 "2018-12-30T03:36:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2018, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/1 "2018-12-30T03:36:09Z")
Well, at least the [verses](https://youtu.be/p3j2NYZ8FKs). This extremely important topic came to me earlier today when, upon listening to it, I asked myself “holy shit, how is it 2019 and you’re finally figuring he is rapping on this song?” But, is he? Poll to follow, public as always. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2018, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/2 "2018-12-30T03:51:11Z")
Rhythm. Rhyme. Yeah, I think it’s rap. Never really occurred to me either. ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2018, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/3 "2018-12-30T03:51:16Z")
It was certainly their intention - [link](https://music.avclub.com/with-west-end-girls-pet-shop-boys-set-a-high-standar-1798280187). ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2018, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/4 "2018-12-30T05:47:33Z")
and its not the only song they did it in ……… because early in their career neil wasn’t sure he could sing for a whole song …… so he would do what they call “speed rapping” these days through some of the song… at some point they phased it out as he was more confident about his singing ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2018, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/5 "2018-12-30T09:09:58Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > Rhythm. Rhyme. Yeah, I think it’s rap. Never really occurred to me either. Ditto. It took me a long time to realize it, probably because I was about 9 when it came out and didn’t really care about defining things then, but when I listened to it as an adult, it became obvious to me. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/6 "2018-12-30T14:16:45Z")
No, it’s no more rap than Bill Shatner covering Lucy In The Sky, or Telly Savalas doing If. Choosing to use a more spoken style rather than pure signing is not sufficient to be rap. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/7 "2018-12-30T16:20:48Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > No, it’s no more rap than Bill Shatner covering Lucy In The Sky, or Telly Savalas doing If. Choosing to use a more spoken style rather than pure signing is not sufficient to be rap. I disagree. This is clearly imitating the rhythm and cadence of early 80s rap. It’s not just freeform spoken word. Definitely rap. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/8 "2018-12-30T16:31:09Z")
Yep, that’s rap. It’s a sentence or more\*, spoken in rhythm. There’s even an accented syllable on ever snare hit. If I wrote it down, I would have to have notes for each syllable. What Shatner does isn’t rap because it’s not in rhythm. And I agree this sounds like early 80s rap. Maybe those who disagree are used to the increased use syncopation found in more modern rap? \*I don’t tend to think it counts as rape when a song that just have a few spoken words, or use speak-singing for parts. For example, Be Prepared from the Lion King is not rap, even though Scar will speak some words in rhythm, particularly near the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/9 "2018-12-30T16:36:50Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > This is clearly imitating the rhythm and cadence of early 80s rap. And, per zombywoof’s link, specifically copying Melle Mel, one of the more influential early rappers. So, not exactly groundbreaking rap, but rap, nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/10 "2018-12-30T16:37:59Z")
If Blonde’s Rapture is to be considered a seminal rap song (and believe me, I’ve tried to talk reason into my white friends about this) then West End Girls fits very comfortably in that tradition. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/11 "2018-12-30T16:44:04Z")
Also, to add to **zombywolf** ’s cite and further corroborate it: [https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/west-end-girls-202378/](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/west-end-girls-202378/) > [@](#): > > The Pet Shop Boys loved Grandmaster Flash’s hip-hop track “The Message” and decided to take a stab at rapping themselves. “So I wrote a rap fallen on from those lines ‘Sometimes you’re better off dead,'” [Chris] Lowe said, which he debuted in the song’s intro. And the key quote from zombywolf’s link: > [@](#): > > Speaking with Colleen Nika for Interview magazine in 2010, Tennant copped to biting his “West End Girls” flow from Melle Mel’s rap on the 1982 Grandmaster Flash And The Furious Five hit “The Message”—a much grittier record Tennant thankfully stopped short of fully emulating. > > “Yes, the rhythm of the rap is exactly the same—but I do it in an English accent,” Tennant said, quoting a “Message” lyric to prove his point. So we have both Chris Lowe and Neil Tenant saying it was clearly intended to be a rap; it sounds like an early 80s style rap; ergo, it is rap. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/12 "2018-12-30T20:01:48Z")
I thought it was just because of the rhythm. You know, rap-rap, rappity-tap. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/13 "2018-12-30T20:05:47Z")
[I always liked the GWAR version of West End Girls.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i-uPX1dt_w) Warning: Vulvatron quite possibly NSFW, unless you work in a sex shop. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/14 "2018-12-30T20:07:15Z")
I had never thought of it as such, but here, seeing/hearing/reading the evidence for, then I have to agree that yes, it is rap. Huh. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/15 "2018-12-30T20:09:27Z")
so is “what did I do to deserve this” have a rap in it too? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/16 "2018-12-30T21:17:38Z")
_blinks_ Wow, it is a rap! /mindblown ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/17 "2018-12-31T04:05:54Z")
Pet Shop Boys are a highly underrated band. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/18 "2018-12-31T06:36:29Z")
Wiki describes it as a synthpop song influenced by hip-hop and I would say that is more accurate than calling it a straight rap song. BTW did anyone else call on Amazon Echo (or something similar) to play the song after clicking on this thread ? Such amazing technology we live with … ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/19 "2018-12-31T06:46:09Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Wiki describes it as a synthpop song influenced by hip-hop and I would say that is more accurate than calling it a straight rap song. Yes it depends how we parse the OP question. There’s definitely rapping in WEG, so I voted “yes”, but you’re right: to call the whole song a rap is a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900/20 "2018-12-31T11:05:30Z")
I still say it’s rap. Plenty of rap has sung lyrics for the chorus. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-west-end-girls-a-rap/826900.md?page=2)