# Is what's happening to Putin "cancel culture"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [March 5, 2022, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527 "2022-03-05T17:26:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/1 "2022-03-05T17:26:41Z")
This is my issue with those who complain about 'cancel culture: it’s only cancel culture if you like the person being ‘canceled.’ Otherwise, it’s just “Good for the sonofabitch.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/2 "2022-03-05T17:29:26Z")
Of course it is. The thing that conservatives try to gaslight us about is that “cancel culture” is one of our most noble traditions. It’s how we effect change without violence. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/3 "2022-03-05T17:29:36Z")
The people who complain about “cancel culture” are also going to be same people upset that Putin is getting pushback from the West. No hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/4 "2022-03-05T17:35:07Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > The thing that conservatives try to gaslight us about is that “cancel culture” is one of our most noble traditions. It’s how we effect change without violence. [Devil’s advocate] Or how we shut down freedom of speech without violence? [/Devil’s advocate] To respond to the thread title’s question: I’m not sure I know what exactly is and is not “cancel culture.” But, no, what’s happening to Putin is not at all the kind of thing I think of when I think of “cancel culture.” It’s not like the world is cancelling his TV show or refusing to buy his albums because of some politically incorrect things he’s said. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/5 "2022-03-05T17:38:49Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > no, what’s happening to Putin is not at all the kind of thing I think of when I think of “cancel culture.” How it is it different? Only in degree, not in kind. People are deciding not to do business with Russia, not to allow Rusian athletes to compete in sports, not allow Russian diplomats in their country, because of his political thoughts and actions–exactly what cancel culture is, only on a much larger scale. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/6 "2022-03-05T17:39:55Z")
My daughter and I were talking about this yesterday. It sure seems like Cancel Culture in action on a grand scale and for the cause of good without doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/7 "2022-03-05T17:49:01Z")
We have expanded the definition of “cancel culture” to the point where the term is effectively meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/8 "2022-03-05T17:53:24Z")
Hasn’t it always been meaningless in the end? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/9 "2022-03-05T17:56:16Z")
Perhaps when people talk about cancel culture, they for some reason think that making explicit disclaimers about how when they talk about teachers and podcasts, they _aren’t_ talking about mass murderers and imperialists would be a sort of insane overkill because nobody could ever actually be confused about that? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/10 "2022-03-05T18:28:51Z")
Cancel culture isn’t a new thing. History gives us excommunication, bannings, persona non grata, keibetsu, shunning, jail, etc. At the end of the day, if someone is misbehaving, either you beat into compliance, tell them to get lost, remove them from the world, or use some form of extortion (e.g. hostages). Maybe in the future, we’ll start giving people pills or brain surgery to forcibly correct them (see also: chemical castration) but that’s pretty much the list at the moment. We’ve taken extortion, beatings, and executions off the list so that does only leave telling them to get lost. The rise in shunning isn’t a “culture”, it’s a natural and to be expected reaction to a rise in misbehavior. Sanctions are, in a sense, the same. But with shunning, you’re depriving a person of the relationships that they want. With sanctions, you might be denying them something they need (e.g. food imports), so it could be more equivalent to blockades - trying to starve the enemy into submission. In the case of Russia, I believe that they’re sufficiently self-sufficient that they don’t need to worry about a famine or anything. They’ll be losing modern tech, the newest fashions, Italian cheeses, etc. They’ll survive but it will be less glamorous and more lonely. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/11 "2022-03-05T18:31:13Z")
Woops, forgot about shaming. That one’s still available but I’m not sure how you do it in the global stage. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/12 "2022-03-05T18:49:00Z")
Really loved World Cancel II. Strong, stock characters, amazing action, and the main bad guy ended up canceling himself after he helped cancel millions in his special canceling camps. But who is to say which canceling was worse, however? ¯\_(ツ)\_/¯ Amazing stuff cancel culture is, really. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/13 "2022-03-05T18:52:48Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > We have expanded the definition of “cancel culture” to the point where the term is effectively meaningless. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > Hasn’t it always been meaningless in the end? Maybe not “always” but yeah, it was hyperextended into an empty buzzword long before this conversation. People seem to have lost sight of that sometimes, when someone “takes offense” at something that was said or done, and cuts off those who said or did it, it’s because that something _ **is** _ morally intolerable. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The rise in shunning isn’t a “culture”, it’s a natural and to be expected reaction to a rise in misbehavior. Right. “I don’t want to have any discretionary interaction with you” is, should be an acceptable response to a person or a collective entity behaving in a wrongful way. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/14 "2022-03-05T19:13:10Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Right. “I don’t want to have any discretionary interaction with you” is, should be an acceptable response to a person or a collective entity behaving in a wrongful way. “But I thought liberals are supposed to be accepting of everyone. Who’s the fascist now?!” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/15 "2022-03-05T19:51:27Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Woops, forgot about shaming. > > That one’s still available but I’m not sure how you do it in the global stage. Kicking athletes out of sporting events, I would say. It doesn’t have a major economic impact, but it says “You people are so despicable that we want to have nothing to do with you.” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/16 "2022-03-05T20:32:01Z")
This sociologist argues that the economic sanctions agrainât the oligarchs are a form of public shaming, because it undercuts their deep news to show off their goodies: > [@](#): > > As social scientists have argued for more than a century, the evidence is overwhelming that, beyond a subsistence level, people will fight even harder for status than they do for money. We see that fight now in the anti-war comments and peacemaking efforts of Russia’s elites, after just a few days of sanctions pressure. They’re behaving exactly as sociologists would expect when status is threatened among a group [accustomed to impunity](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/trumps-very-ordinary-indifference-to-the-common-good/616675/): They’re angry, and they’re anxious. Their discomfort has not yet persuaded Putin to stop his aggression in Ukraine, but it’s a reminder that the U.S., U.K., and EU can and should confront a kleptocratic system that allowed Russia’s president to amass so much power in the first place. > **[The Russian Elite Can’t Stand the Sanctions](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/russian-sanctions-oligarchs-offshore-wealth/623886/)** > > The latest measures are far more effective than Western powers’ past efforts to target Russia’s elite. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/17 "2022-03-06T03:08:30Z")
I’ve been seeing a lot of legitimate leftists on Twitter claim that the current going-ons are “Western Imperialist Virtue Signaling” so it’s not exclusively a right wing issue. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/18 "2022-03-06T05:02:06Z")
Perhaps it is. But surely non-violent but serious actions are hardly controversial with regards to an invasion based on obvious pretexts which will probably result in thousands of deaths especially compared with the goofy cancellations that typically occur if the wrong person makes a burrito or sings along with a popular rap song. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/19 "2022-03-06T05:24:01Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > I’ve been seeing a lot of legitimate leftists on Twitter claim that the current going-ons are “Western Imperialist Virtue Signaling” so it’s not exclusively a right wing issue. It’s not. I’ve seen a few leftist YouTubers discussing the negative side of cancel culture in recent months. And I’ve got to admit, I have a hard time discerning the difference between “cancel culture” and someone simply suffering the consequences of their actions. Gina Carano wasn’t a victim of cancel culture in my mind whereas James Gunn was. I think one of the problems is that we’re polarized and we tend to look at our political opponents as enemies rather than people we disagree with. How many click bait links have you seen proclaiming one politician/pundit “owning” or “destroying” their opponent? Just Google “AOC Destroys…” and see how many hits you get. And while I haven’t cancelled anyway, I’ve found it increasingly hard to connect with my mother these past few years. She’s went down the Trump rabbit hole pretty deep with no signs of surfacing anytime soon. I can’t talk to her about anything important because I do not respect her opinions or trust her judgment. I can see why a lot of people cancel others. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/20 "2022-03-06T05:59:03Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > And I’ve got to admit, I have a hard time discerning the difference between “cancel culture” and someone simply suffering the consequences of their actions. That would be because there is no difference. The cancel-whiners are people who think they have the absolute right to be assholes and no one else has the right to respond to their assholery. I have rights, you are not allowed to say anything about how I exercise them (but I also have the right to criticze you for how you exercise your rights, because _you_ do it wrongly). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527.md?page=2)