# Is what's happening to Putin "cancel culture"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [March 5, 2022, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527 "2022-03-05T17:26:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/61 "2022-03-09T01:34:33Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > The dubious claim of “cancel culture” is used by people who are _being_ cancelled, by those who are _suffering the consequences_ of expressing despicable views. And by people complaining about it. I don’t think that anyone on this board has ever been cancelled, but I hear people on this board complaining about cancel culture on a pretty regular basis. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/62 "2022-03-09T01:44:18Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Both were fired for people taking offense at social media postings, unrelated to their actual work. In my mind, they are both “cancel culture” and the only difference is that liberals embrace James Gunn and his work more than they do Gina Carano. Is it not important that Gina was criticized, with calls for her to be fired, as she made the post? (The same happened to Roseanne Barr.) James Gunn was criticized and ultimately fired for social media posts he’d made a decade before. I’d think that should be considered a major difference between the cases. (Gunn’s defense was that he was a different person when he’d made those remarks, and they didn’t represent who he was anymore. That’s plausible after 10 years, not so plausible after 10 minutes.) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/63 "2022-03-09T01:44:25Z")
> [@Roger\_That](#): > > This is my issue with those who complain about 'cancel culture: it’s only cancel culture if you like the person being ‘canceled.’ Otherwise, it’s just “Good for the sonofabitch.” I refer you to my definitions from the previous topic you started on cancel culture. > [@Cancel Culture and Virtue Signaling -- What’s the case against them?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/164): > > We can do better than that. How about, > > **cancel culture** > _n_ . > > 1. A set of predominating attitudes and behaviors in a group or organization characterized by total and radical disinvestment from public individuals and organizations in response to offensive or objectionable behavior > 2. A set of predominating attitudes and behaviors in a group or organization characterized by a tendency to protest offensive or objectionable behavior by boycotting public individuals and organizations who have not totally and radically disinvested themselves from such behavior > > Random selected commentary on “cancel culture” in the spoiler. I found it interesting that for example the Hannity quote seems to support cancel culturedef 1 but oppose cancel culturedef 2. Actually I was having difficulty finding transcripts of Hannity or Carlson speaking about cancel culture by name. > > > **Click to show/hide commentary** > > > > > _"I do get a sense sometimes now among certain young people, and this is accelerated by social media, there is this sense sometimes of: ‘The way of me making change is to be as judgmental as possible about other people,’ and that’s enough. Like, if I tweet or hashtag about how you didn’t do something right or used the wrong verb, then I can sit back and feel pretty good about myself, cause, ‘Man, you see how woke I was, I called you out.’_ > > > > > > _[Then he pretended to sit back and press the remote to turn on a television.]_ > > > > > > _“That’s not activism. That’s not bringing about change. If all you’re doing is casting stones, you’re probably not going to get that far. That’s easy to do.”_ > > > > > > ~Barack Obama, former President of the United States, speaking at the Obama Foundation Summit on 10/30/2019 (described as a criticism of cancel culture [by _The New York Times_ on 10/31/2019](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/31/us/politics/obama-woke-cancel-culture.html)) > > > > > _"_ Cancel culture _is a little bit like_ fake news _. It’s a term that means everything and nothing. It’s just shouted out there as a signal. If you say that the Suess family choosing to not publish some books is cancel culture, then you have no idea what that means."_ > > > > > > ~Dan Pfeiffer, former Senior Advisor to President Obama for Strategy and Communications, [interview for _Slate Magazine_ , published 04/14/2021](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/04/cancel-culture-republicans-democrats-obama-playbook.html) > > > > > _"In case you think we are overstating Frank Luntz’s allegiance to corporate power, take a look at his Twitter feed sometime if you’re ever bored, quote: ‘Delta employees made them the top-rated airline,’ he wrote last January in what sounded very much like a press release. ‘That’s something only good workers can do, not shareholders.’_ > > > > > > _"Then not long ago when Donald Trump called for boycotting Coca-Cola and Delta Airlines, after they interfered in a very shocking way, right in the middle of Georgia’s political system, Luntz came to the defense of them. Of course, they’re his clients._ > > > > > > _" ‘This left-wing cancel culture is out of control.’ He wrote mockingly."_ > > > > > > ~Tucker Carlson, talk show host, on his 04/30/2021 _Tucker Carlson Tonight_ broadcast ([transcript on Fox News](https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/tucker-why-you-probably-dont-recognize-the-republican-party)) > > > > > _"The only way I can do one more special is if it’s at the end of my television career because it will end my television career. We’re in the cancel culture now. No stand-up that is sponsor-driven can say anything he wants to. Chris Rock can’t. Kevin Hart can’t. Cedric the Entertainer can’t. D.L. Hughley can’t. I can go down the list. The only person that can say what they want to say on stage is Dave Chappelle because he’s not sponsor-driven. He’s subscription-driven._ > > > > > > _"If I had tried to continue as a stand-up, there’s no way I could maintain it. Political correctness has killed comedy. Every joke you tell now, it hurts somebody’s feelings. But what people don’t understand about comedians is that a joke has to be about something. It has to be about somebody. We can’t write jokes about puppies all the time. The joke can’t be about bushes all the time. Some of these jokes will have to be about people, because that’s the most interesting topic. So if I come back, I’ll have to wait until I’m done. And I’m not done. I want to do one more. I’ll probably have to call it ‘This Is It.’ "_ > > > > > > ~Steve Harvey, entertainer, speaking at the Television Association Press Tour, [as reported by _Variety_ on 01/11/2022](https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/steve-harvey-cancel-culture-killed-comedy-1235151564/) > > > > > _"But here’s the great thing about living in a free country, if you don’t like what Whoopi Goldberg said, guess what? Change the channel. If you don’t like her show, change the channel. You don’t like Stephen Colbert, Kimmel or Fallon constantly shilling for Democrats, telling bad jokes, don’t watch it. No one is forcing you to. You don’t have to tune in. Censorship via big government, corporations is never the answer._ > > > > > > _“Tonight, I’m calling on everyone on all these other networks, you’re on ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, fake news CNN, you need to denounce censorship and stop with the boycotts and stop with the feigned moral outrage and you know what? None of you are perfect either and when you make a mistake, you should get the same forgiveness if you’re sincere in your apology.”_ > > > > > > ~Sean Hannity, talk show host, on his 02/01/2022 broadcast of _Hannity_ ([tagged “cancel culture” on Fox News](https://www.foxnews.com/media/hannity-whoopi-goldberg-change-channel)) > > > > > _"You talk about cancel culture, but notice that those discussions only go one way. We don’t talk about_ all _the people who were fired. You just kind of talk about, like, right-leaning podcast bros and more conservative figures. But, for example, Marc Lamont Hill was fired for discussing an issue with respect to Palestinians, pretty summarily."_ > > > > > > ~Alexandrio Ocasio-Cortez, U.S. Representative for New York’s 14th District, [interview for _The New Yorker_ , published 02/14/2022](https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-interview/is-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-an-insider-now) Conservatives complain about the latter type. The equivalent with respect to sanctions on Russia would be **to sanction countries who have not sanctioned Russia - _that_ would be the sort of cancel culture the American right whines about**. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/64 "2022-03-09T01:51:18Z")
Gunn also apologized for the jokes he made in bad taste. Carano doubled down. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/65 "2022-03-09T01:54:54Z")
Details! 😝 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/66 "2022-03-09T14:48:07Z")
Putin is the cancel culture poster child. > **[Police Close Gallery, Seize Portrait Of Putin In Women's Underwear](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-putin-portrait-underwear-seized/25088847.html)** > > Police in St. Petersburg have seized four satirical paintings featuring high-ranking Russian politicians, including a portrait of President Vladimir Putin and Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev in women's underwear. Gallery owner Aleksandr Donskoi says... ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/67 "2022-03-09T22:53:48Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > > [@msmith537](#): > > > > Both were fired for people taking offense at social media postings, unrelated to their actual work. In my mind, they are both “cancel culture” and the only difference is that liberals embrace James Gunn and his work more than they do Gina Carano. > > Is it not important that Gina was criticized, with calls for her to be fired, as she made the post? (The same happened to Roseanne Barr.) James Gunn was criticized and ultimately fired for social media posts he’d made a decade before. I’d think that should be considered a major difference between the cases. > > (Gunn’s defense was that he was a different person when he’d made those remarks, and they didn’t represent who he was anymore. That’s plausible after 10 years, not so plausible after 10 minutes.) I did a cursory search of what Gina posted: - Some comments about stopping voter fraud - Putting “Beep/Bop/Boop” as her preferred pronouns as a joke. - “Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors…even by children. Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views?” I guess even as a Jewish person, I don’t really see what she said as particularly offensive. But it is clearly very Conservative. Gunn OTOH made a bunch of posts about pedophilia, rape, the Holocaust, and referenced his privates a lot. The main difference I see is that Gunn identifies as “liberal” and the Guardians films made over $1.5 billion globally under his direction. Gina Carano OTOH can easily have her role replaced by Ronda Rousey or…whoever. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/68 "2022-03-10T00:15:02Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Sure it’s “cancel culture”, and that’s a good thing. “Cancel culture” is simply shorthand for “if you act like an asshole, you’ll be shut out of civilized society”. Consequence culture. > [@Atamasama](#): > > James Gunn was criticized and ultimately fired for social media posts he’d made a decade before. I’d think that should be considered a major difference between the cases. Didn’t he get “uncancelled”? He’s having no problems finding work. Hardly a victim of cancel culture. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/69 "2022-03-10T00:38:48Z")
Although I liked the [Of Course Putin Is Being Canceled](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/russia-ukraine-war-cancel-putin-culture-war/626978/) article previously linked by roger\_that, what is happening to Putin isn’t cancel culture, just cancelling. Cancel culture Implies excessive cancelling. Refusing to work with or host classical music artists, who are obeying authoritarian Russian speech laws, is cancel culture because it is, in my personal view, illiberal and excessive. Sanctions are an overused form of attempted cancellation, as progressives will often agree when it comes to Cuba. Most, not all, of the sanctions against Russia are troubling because they are collective punishment. Such sanctions should be lifted as soon as they either work, or clearly aren’t working. The phrase cancel culture is predominantly used by conservatives, even though people are often cancelled by right-wing institutions. Who uses it shouldn’t be used to judge a concept like the phrase cancel culture, IMHO, but, obviously, many disagree with that. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/70 "2022-03-10T01:34:26Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Didn’t he get “uncancelled”? He’s having no problems finding work. Hardly a victim of cancel culture. He was hired back on because he apologized and pointed out that the language he was criticized for was old, and he’d changed in the decade since. He was absolutely a victim, because he was fired. It was an attempt by the right to bring him down (right wing pundits did the digging). But in his case it didn’t stick. > [@msmith537](#): > > The main difference I see is that Gunn identifies as “liberal” and the Guardians films made over $1.5 billion globally under his direction. Gina Carano OTOH can easily have her role replaced by Ronda Rousey or…whoever. LOL. You completely ignored everything you said and just doubled down. The reason that’s the only difference “you see” is because you only see what you want to. Your failure to address any of my points is pretty telling. Here’s an article about why she was fired, though I don’t expect you to read it. It’s even longer than my post you didn’t read. > **[See Gina Carano’s tweets and posts that got her fired from ‘The Mandalorian’](https://nypost.com/2021/02/11/see-gina-caranos-tweets-and-posts-that-got-her-fired/)** > > Actress Gina Carano has long embraced the force of speaking her mind — an act that got her booted from Star Wars spinoff “The Mandalorian.” The former MMA fighter was confirmed on… ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/71 "2022-03-10T01:42:14Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Most, not all, of the sanctions against Russia are troubling because they are collective punishment. Such sanctions should be lifted as soon as they either work, or clearly aren’t working. The country seems to support Putin – most notably, the really rich guys who do a lot of string-pulling. The rest of the world is casting a vote relative to Putin, asking the country to stop supporting him. This may be a bad strategy inasmuch as it could result in the put-upon citizenry closing ranks, becoming even more supportive. This is especially a problem when the Big K has clamped down on what can be said and set a 15 year sentence for any anti-war protests, hence making it that much more difficult for citizens of good conscience to gain any traction and ends up spreading an internal sense of a nation backing him. So, if the sanctions are impacting Russians, what? Do you suggest that they be lifted, so that Vlad is free to proceed, unhindered? His army is killing civilians in what appear to be rater loathesome ways, yet, you suggest that the people of Russia should be allowed to just go on with their lives as if it was no big deal? As if we did not care? In the end, this is a genuine kobiyashi maru. There appears to be no correct course. If only we still had Individual-ONE in the WhiteHouse, because then there would be no talk of sanctions, and this enterprise would have been finished by now. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/72 "2022-03-10T02:03:43Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Do you suggest that they be lifted, so that Vlad is free to proceed, unhindered? I suggested lifting them if they aren’t hindering him. Here is another kind of argument for willingness to lift sanctions sooner rather than later: [The Ukraine Dilemma: Can the West Save Kyiv Without Starting a War With Russia?](https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/russia-fsu/2022-03-09/ukraine-dilemma) > [@](#): > > Demonstrate toughness and resolve first, and only after NATO has established its commitment, pivot to offering inducements to Putin to create incentives for him to de-escalate and negotiate. . . . > > As painful as this is to contemplate, these offers would have to signal a willingness to lift some sanctions in response to de-escalation. Just as threats must be connected to behavior that leaders are trying to prevent, so must inducements be calibrated to behavior that they are trying to promote. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/73 "2022-03-10T02:07:48Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The main difference I see is that Gunn identifies as “liberal” and the Guardians films made over $1.5 billion globally under his direction. Gina Carano OTOH can easily have her role replaced by Ronda Rousey or…whoever. Another significant difference is that Gunn’s posts were actually part of his job. He was working at Adult Swim at the time, and they wanted their creatives to maintain social media presences and engage in “edgy” humor as part of the Adult Swim brand. No one complained at the time, and when they were resurfaced years later, he apologized, and never engaged in the behavior again. Carano wasn’t posting as part of her job, and when her posts started generating immediate controversy, Disney told her to stop - and she didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/74 "2022-03-10T02:56:15Z")
I’ll try to simplify it. Let’s say you have two friends, Gina and James. A third friend texts you and says, “I hate to break it to you, but both of them have said nasty things about you.” You get screenshots of James saying nasty things about you. Awful things. Bad jokes at your expense that were really tasteless and hurtful. They are really old. You also receive screenshots of Gina saying some nasty things about you too. She just posted them. You’d be hurt and would be tempted to cut ties with them. Now let’s say James says, “I’m sorry. I was a jerk. That was 10 years ago, I’m a different person and would never say anything like that now. I don’t believe those things about you and didn’t even really believe them then; I was trying to be edgy and get attention. I was a jerk and I’m sorry I hurt you.” Gina says, “I stand by what I said. That’s my opinion and I refuse to apologize. I’ll do it again, this is who I am, and if you don’t like it, tough.” Based on those statements you forgive James and never talk to Gina again. Does this sound like it’s purely a political issue?! ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/75 "2022-03-10T11:07:07Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I’ll try to simplify it. Yes, please simplify it with your needlessly complicated and inane metaphor. First of all, neither person is saying things about “me”. They are saying things that are stupid and possibly political. Second, they aren’t my “friends”. They are entertainers who produce works I enjoy (more James than Gina). @Miller has it correct. Gunn’s posts were from a decade ago before he joined the Disney/MCU team. Gina was presently violating whatever agreement she had with Disney. So IMHO it’s less about “feelings” as it is about retroactively applying an agreement you made with an employer. @Roger_That is correct that it’s “cancel culture” if you like the person being cancelled, Otherwise it’s just good for the sonofabitch. Except that it works both ways. The fact that we are even debating stupid posts someone made a decade ago tells me “cancel culture” is a thing that can often be unreasonable. Of course non of this has to do with Putin. I mean if you can’t cancel someone for blowing up maternity wards and schools, who can you cancel? ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/76 "2022-03-10T13:16:40Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > if you can’t cancel someone for blowing up maternity wards and schools, who can you cancel? So we’ve located a sonofabitch we can all agree upon? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/77 "2022-03-10T14:42:55Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Gunn’s posts were from a decade ago before he joined the Disney/MCU team. Gina was presently violating whatever agreement she had with Disney. So IMHO it’s less about “feelings” as it is about retroactively applying an agreement you made with an employer. My point ms up until now, **which you’ve ignored** , let me add, have been twofold. Gunn’s posts were a decade old, and Carano’s were new. Gunn was apologetic. Carano doubled-down. That was the difference. Your ridiculous assertion that it was all political was willful ignorance. Ignorance is what this site is trying to fight. > [@msmith537](#): > > Yes, please simplify it with your needlessly complicated and inane metaphor. It’s an attempt to rephrase it in a personal way, so that you can **see the difference**. Which isn’t political. I’m still not sure you get it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/78 "2022-03-10T19:43:10Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > @Miller has it correct. Gunn’s posts were from a decade ago before he joined the Disney/MCU team. Gina was presently violating whatever agreement she had with Disney. So IMHO it’s less about “feelings” as it is about retroactively applying an agreement you made with an employer. One odd thing about Gunn’s firing is the fact that, almost before the ink was dry on the Disney/Fox deal, they rehired Gunn for GotG 3. This, along with the fact that a handful of other outspoken liberals (comic book author Chuck Wendig, in particular) working on Disney projects got fired or had projects unexpectedly cancelled at the same time Gunn was fired, has led to some speculation that Gunn’s firing was explicitly political, and done to somehow grease the wheels on the Fox deal. Ike Perlmutter, a notorious racist\* and Trump goon who was chairman of Marvel comics before the Disney take over, and later CEO of Marvel Entertainment, might have been involved. Perlmutter had stepped down as CEO a couple years before Gunn’s firing, but reportedly still had control over some parts of the company. Marvel’s Head of Television, Jeph Loeb was still reporting directly to him up until 2019, when they both left the company after the television division was placed under Kevin Feige - coincidentally, also around the time that Gunn was rehired for GotG 3. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527/79 "2022-03-10T22:28:38Z")
I think it’s also useful to differentiate between the firing of people, and cancel culture. Yes, they are inextricably entwined, of course. Firing someone because they said or did something objectionable is a public relations move. And when someone is being canceled by the public, that is a classic example of a PR nightmare. If you think Gunn or Carano are toxic, and will boycott something they’re involved with, that person is poison. But while they are linked, they aren’t the same. I was addressing the public’s opinion of the two, rather than the reasons why Disney chose to fire them (and subsequently rehire Gunn). I don’t really know if the firings were a direct result of the public backlash, or were the result of a contract violation (such as an ethics clause, or whatever you’d call it), or the bad PR was just the excuse they needed to cut ties with someone they no longer wanted to work with. It seems that in both cases, there was a great amount of public criticism. That never went away for Carano, and it did seem to go away for Gunn. I attribute that to the apology, or lack thereof, and whether the offensive comments were recent or not. At no point would politics (liberal/conservative) have anything to do with it. That’s silly. Both made comments offensive to left-leaning people. If Gunn is considered a person who is on the political left, that would make it even worse for him. Carano never pretended to be anything other than what she was; I don’t recall any attempts from her to cater to people on the left. For Gunn to be revealed as a bigot, that’s a betrayal. So if this was all about politics, Gunn’s name would be mud. It wasn’t about politics though. Gunn has the distance of time from his comments, and showed contrition. Neither of those is true for Carano. That’s pretty simple. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whats-happening-to-putin-cancel-culture/960527.md?page=3)