# Is whey protein actually useful for strength training? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 10, 2009, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934 "2009-05-10T09:33:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/21 "2009-05-11T00:53:37Z")
While we’re on the subject, anyone have an opinion on hemp protein? It’s very mild tasting although the texture can be a little grainy if you mix too much powder in your drink. ---
**Author:** ![Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/13edae/32.png) [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interconnected_Series_of_Tubes)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/22 "2009-05-11T01:46:39Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Sure. The only reason i focused on price is that he specifically claimed that other products are “overpriced crap.” > > Not only is the stuff i buy at Henry’s cheaper than the “most protein per serving” GNC stuff that he was touting, it also has a higher percentage of protein. > > GNC: 60g of protein in an 82g serving (73% protein) > > Henry’s: 18g of protein in a 21.5g serving (83.7% protein) Don’t forget to multiply by the bioavailability, too. :o ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/23 "2009-05-11T09:45:55Z")
I think it’s symptomatic how GQ answers to the OP can range from “Of course they’re useful” to “No, they’re not needed. It’s a gimmick”. Opinions and anecdotes, with no hard data in sight (my own answers included). ---
**Author:** ![redshift](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbce88/32.png) [@redshift](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redshift)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/24 "2009-05-11T11:16:26Z")
From my experience, its not necessary, but it does help out. You get a bit of protein ASAP because you can just dump a scoop into an empty water bottle and carry it with you. Then just add water when you work out. Of course, if you eat within the half-hour to an hour after you work out, you’re pretty much doing the same thing. But for me, where I go to gym at school and it takes me about 30 minutes afterward to get home, I can just do a bit of carb/protein on the spot. I don’t see a downside to it, a tub costs me $25 and will last me 2-3 months (I do one scoop per workout, 3 workouts a week). Muscle building is about rest and nutrients, not about working out. The working out stresses your muscles and provides the stimulus but ultimately it requires you to rest and recuperate. Take in plenty of nutrients all day, and sleep. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/25 "2009-05-11T11:30:25Z")
> [@Toxylon](#): > > I think it’s symptomatic how GQ answers to the OP can range from “Of course they’re useful” to “No, they’re not needed. It’s a gimmick”. Opinions and anecdotes, with no hard data in sight (my own answers included). It’s more symptomatic of discussions on training and weight loss. Inevitably with those you’re going to get more opinion and belief than anything. There’s not enough study out there, and people think one person’s results can be generalized to everyone without taking into account genetics and life circumstances. It’s very frustrating. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/26 "2009-05-11T13:25:47Z")
I use whey protein daily. I do it because I am on a high protein diet (as a part of a general fitness program) and I do not eat red meat or poultry. I used to be vegetarian, but I eat fish. I need to find protein sources for six small meals a day. It’s not really feasible to fill that with fish (plus I worry about mercury), eggs (cholesterol), and dairy (lots of carbs) alone without making a lot of sacrifices to foods I do enjoy. As such, it’s a handy way for me to follow the diet with my dietary restrictions. It’s also strongly recommended by trainers to use the whey protein powder, particularly after workouts, because it absorbs quickly and is convenient. The average American diet tends to be more carb/fat heavy than it is protein heavy so finding easy sources of protein is key in helping people change their diet. From what I understand, though, whey protein is just one of the protein supplements used by bodybuilders. My roommate (whose brother is a bodybuilder) recommended I use casein protein at night, as it is long-absorption. I opted not to because I think it is foul and disgusting due to its grittier texture (whey is fine powder which readily incorporates into milk). Some also use egg protein powder which is a medium-absorption powder. The idea is to get a steady dose of protein all the time, even overnight, to prevent any muscle to be used as a protein source by the body. Is it needed? Probably not, but it is definitely useful in terms of convenience and exceptional control of your dietary intake. Also, for those that think whey protein tastes disgusting – I’d have to disagree. I enjoy my shakes quite a bit. I didn’t like the Body Fortress (cheaper) stuff so much, but any of the GNC / Vitamin World kinds are fine. You can get good deals online - I bought two giant 10 lb tubs for about $60 shipped, which will last many months even when used daily. Vanilla chai or banana flavored, mmm! Even the cheap stuff tastes fine if mixed in with oatmeal. Also, that Wheybolic stuff - it’s 60g but three scoops, most powders seem to recommend two scoops, so that seems to be the main difference. I take one scoop anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/27 "2009-05-11T14:29:34Z")
I drink a shake BEFORE my workout since I can’t work out after eating a big meal. So I drink the shake about 30 minutes prior to the gym, and then eat dinner about an hour after the workout. I’ve been told that it takes at least a couple of hours for the protein to be absorbed, so I figure that the timing works. I could never understand why they tell you to drink the shake after the workout if they claim that your body needs it immediately after the workout. ---
**Author:** ![donagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6f9a4e/32.png) [@donagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/donagirl)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/28 "2012-10-04T17:04:45Z")
Got a little lost in my fitness quest so decided to consume only whey protein shakes made with skim milk, minimal fruit and vegetables, 3-5 shakes a day. Total calories about 1200 (same as my usual healthy, low calorie diet), so I was surprised at the quick loss. 1200 healthy doesn’t seem to cut it for a quick drop if you’ve lost track. There was immediate weight loss next day of 2 pounds, 1 the next and 1/2 after the 3rd day. Hmmmm, I did some number crunching and it seems this meant I was consuming 135-150 gram protein vs. normal of about 75 gm. I’m 5’4.5", 128 pounds, female. The carbs came out about equal to what I would eat on a regular 1200 calorie diet, shakes = 136-162 and solid food 1200 calorie diet = 154 grams. The fat was a lot lower, shakes = 9-11 grams and solid food = 36 grams (though I usually ate quite a bit less). So, I don’t think I’ve lost muscle being all the protein in the shakes, and since carbs were the same, I’m not thinking water…hmmmmm. I can’t continue this too long, my brain does seem a little loopy/hard to concentrate but I think I’ll try 2 meals a day replacement shakes and then a healthy dinner with lots of low fat protein, vegetables, a hi fiber serving of carb. Just wondering if there’s science behind this or just luck? ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/29 "2012-10-04T17:24:48Z")
It should be noted that this thread is over three years old. > [@donagirl](#): > > There was immediate weight loss next day of 2 pounds, 1 the next and 1/2 after the 3rd day. Sorry to say, but you didn’t actually lose any weight other than [water](http://www.justinowings.com/understanding-bodyweight-and-glycogen-de/); that is the only way anybody can lose 2 pounds after one day on a diet and also explains the decreasing losses the following days. Also, as for protein, I don’t bother with any of those fancy protein powders; I get it from real foods, for example, whey protein comes from milk, which also has casein which helps maintain protein levels because it is slowly absorbed (plus there are actual nutrients besides protein, including electrolytes; as already mentioned, you also need carbohydrates for best results). I do eat protein bars (like [these](http://www.naturevalley.com/)), but not that stuff that looks like some sort of unrecognizable paste. Also, many people think you need to gorge yourself on protein to see benefits and that more is better (hundreds of grams a day) but that is unnecessary and your body will burn unused protein as fuel (and store it as fat if you overeat). ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/30 "2012-10-04T17:47:05Z")
The guys at the Italian deli told me it was a good workout. The stuff came in 50 lb plastic bags they had to man handle into the kitchen then squeeze them out through sheep stomachs to make mozzarella. Quite a workout. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/31 "2012-10-05T00:46:42Z")
The thread may be old but some who read it may be interested in [this article](http://jp.physoc.org/content/590/5/1049.full) (once linked to in a different thread as well). Lots of detail and a very interesting read. (MPS = muscle protein synthesis.) > [@](#): > > … while MPS remained unchanged up to 3 h after extremely fatiguing and damaging eccentric contractions (step-up/step-down carrying weight) (Cuthbertson et al. 2006), the latency for lower intensity exercise (6 × 8 repetitions at 75% 1-RM) is \<1 h (Kumar et al. 2009b). > > After this latent period, MPS rises sharply between 45 and 150 min and may be sustained for up to 4 h (Kumar et al. 2009b) in the fasted state (limited by substrate availability), and in the presence of increased AA availability, up to and beyond 24 h (Cuthbertson et al. 2006) … > > … In general, we believe that it is largely irrelevant whether the feed is given pre-, during or post-exercise. This is because the delaying of the muscle-full response appears to last at least 24 h (Burd et al. 2011) after a single bout of exercise, which may help explain chronic adaptations such as hypertrophy/remodelling of muscle over time, independent of proximity-dependent feeding patterns (see Fig. 2). Therefore, we contend that nutrient sufficiency per se, rather than timing of intake, is the more important aspect to successful hypertrophic adaptation (that is not to say some acute performance/recovery benefits may be afforded by consumption of nutrition in close proximity to exercise) (Ferguson-Stegall et al. 2011). Moreover, there are still limits to how hard the system can be pushed and increasing protein loading to an identical bout of exercise still demonstrates a saturable response at around 20 g (equivalent to the 10 g EAA maximum dose observed with EAAs in the absence of exercise), above which amino acid oxidation is increased and excess protein is thus catabolised (Moore et al. 2009). Therefore increasing the EAA load will not fully overcome the muscle-full effect afforded by exercise; rather, it prolongs the anabolic window. As such moderate feeding strategies may be better (∼20 g PRO aliquots) but, perhaps, more often (the frequency of which remains to be determined, i.e. how long the muscle remains refractory to the anabolic effects of AAs). Summarizing: 20 grams of whey either immediately before (assuming no nausea during work out results) or within an hour after, will give the muscle-full; more will be used for energy not protein synthesis. Filling the muscle back up later along the way may be useful, either by repeated doses of quick absorbing protein with enough essential amino acids, or by initial ingestion of a slow absorbing form at the same time. Hence the wisdom of actual milk like Michael does (so long as you can handle the lactose). ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/32 "2012-10-05T02:41:22Z")
Even zombies need protein. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/33 "2012-10-05T10:10:51Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Hence the wisdom of actual milk like Michael does (so long as you can handle the lactose). What’s the superior virtue of milk in the context of the quote you provided? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/34 "2012-10-05T12:06:52Z")
In that context the advantage of milk is that it, at least theoretically, contains both a fast absorbing protein to provide the fairly immediate need and a slower absorbing protein to keep the essential amino acid levels high longer, potentially prolonging the anabolic window. The advantage that the supplement has however is that it has more grams of protein per serving and less sugar; you’d need to drink several cups worth of milk to get enough of each component. Additionally upon review I note that milk is 80% casein and only 20% whey. There is also [this article](http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/93/5/997.long) that argues for some specific advantage of whey over casein (this study done in older adults) beyond its more rapid absorption. They suggest that whey’s higher leucine content provides a greater anabolic signal. FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/35 "2012-10-06T09:57:01Z")
Aha, got it. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/36 "2012-10-06T14:59:15Z")
This kind of thing always struck me as typical hobbyist “how many angels dance on the head of a pin” type obsession. Ultimately, the amount of muscle you put on is really determined by your own genetic makeup (i.e. hormones) and how you lift. Quibbling over whey vs. hemp vs. dairy is just missing the forest for the trees for 99.9% of bodybuilders and athletes. It’s like any other hobby where people just get into it and obsess about things that don’t actually matter in the long run. It’s like the 80/20 rule taken to an extreme. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/37 "2012-10-06T16:49:03Z")
My bias is to agree with you but the numbers in the studies are surprising. For example in that last article linked to, the one that suggests the leucine may be a particularly potent anabolic signal, the difference in the muscle fractional synthetic rate varies from 0.08 to 0.15, p\<0.01. That does seem to consistently be the level of difference in these sorts of studies. If that translates into real world it is a significant difference. ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/38 "2012-10-06T17:24:19Z")
Not like milk is the only thing I take for protein; as I said, I also eat protein-rich foods (even the average American eats more protein than their body really needs, although the recommended RDA for protein is the [minimum amount your body needs](http://www.nationaldairycouncil.org/Research/DairyCouncilDigestArchives/Pages/dcd81-2Page1.aspx) and there have been calls to change it). Of course, dieters, vegetarians and especially vegans may find it harder to eat enough protein (particularly with the right amino acid balance) without supplements, especially if they are on a high-protein diet (whey is an animal protein so vegans won’t take it). The point is, you should get protein from actual foods over supplements, just as it is better to get vitamins and minerals from food instead of a multivitamin (although I do take one, but just as insurance). ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/39 "2012-10-06T17:40:31Z")
> [@Michael63129](#): > > Of course, dieters, vegetarians and especially vegans may find it harder to eat enough protein (particularly with the right amino acid balance) without supplements… My understanding is this is totally a myth, unless your definition of ‘hard’ is extremely pessimistic. While it’s true that a meatless diet lacks any single food that can provide all 20 amino acids, vegetarians don’t limit themselves to just one food. Combinations of multiple foods can easily provide all 20 amino acids. However it’s my understanding that vegetarians do need to supplement certain essential fatty acids (EFA’s) that can’t be obtained from plants. ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934/40 "2012-10-06T18:49:15Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > My understanding is this is totally a myth, unless your definition of ‘hard’ is extremely pessimistic. While it’s true that a meatless diet lacks any single food that can provide all 20 amino acids, vegetarians don’t limit themselves to just one food. Combinations of multiple foods can easily provide all 20 amino acids. > > However it’s my understanding that vegetarians do need to supplement certain essential fatty acids (EFA’s) that can’t be obtained from plants. Unless you are eating a lot of beans and nuts, most fruits and vegetables don’t have a lot of protein in them; not just essential amino acids but total protein; how does one eat 100 grams of protein a day (well, [soybeans](http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4376/2) have a lot of protein, and all of the essential amino acids, but I don’t think you are going to eat the necessary amount every day). Also, the main nutrient that most vegetarians and especially vegans lack is [Vitamin B12](http://www.vegansociety.com/lifestyle/nutrition/b12.aspx) (which actually comes from microorganisms that live in the gut of herbivorous animals). Another nutrient is [choline](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choline#Groups_at_risk_for_choline_deficiency), which can be found in plant sources but in smaller amounts (the essential fatty acids you mention are the [omega-3s EPA and DHA](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid#Conversion_efficiency_of_ALA_to_EPA_and_DHA); plants contain ALA but it hasn’t been found to have the same benefits and your body can only convert some of it to EPA/DHA; there is also the issue of an unbalanced omega 6:3 ratio which may contribute to diseases, 10-30:1 in a typical Western diet; even grain-fed beef is [around 4:1](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid#Meat), meaning that the extreme ratio is mainly due to vegetable sources). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-whey-protein-actually-useful-for-strength-training/495934.md?page=3)